The Banning System

[Nagi]

Hello,

I'm going to be pretty relatively brief about this.

When a user is banned, show them a forum where they can appeal.
Letting them see "You are banned! Reason: {}" is pretty stupid and useless.

It is much better giving them the chance to appeal and/or see something useful.
I'm suggesting a forums that only the banned members can see and a place to let them appeal.

Stop taking a week to wait for responses to a decent well-detailed scam report.
Ban the user for inactivity if they're looking at a thread and can't defend it (a day's duration max).
It doesn't take a week to ban a user when I've provided well known proof of a user's legitimacy.

With the system above, using this method would easily solve a good portion of your bans as well as have no harmful effects.

If a user is falsely banned, they would appeal with sufficient evidence immediately.

Thanks.

 

[Ivain]

true enough. But that's something to decide when it is actually being implemented.

 

[MisfitNerd]

true enough. But that's something to decide when it is actually being implemented.

Okay, so here's another idea.

They set a limit of 30 days per ban appeal, as well as a max of 3 appeals total. If a ban is truly uncertain, the staff can deny it and simply allow them the chance to re-appeal if they resolve the issue or provide a proper counter-argument or evidence of innocence. If they find that the ban was indeed fair, then they're moved to be an officially banned user, with no other chances of appealing.

 

[Ivain]

Good enough. That way people will have the chance to learn from mistakes they may make in their initial appeal (Which I almost guarantee will happen, at least with some less-experienced members), and they get a total of 3 tries with sufficient cooldown, but staff don't have to worry about it if the appeals are really low-quality.

 

[ItzPulse]

Good.

 

[Overlord]

Yet every time it has been removed, everyone complains.

Of course they do. Most people here don't have the smallest bit of logic to realise that's not normal and they don't need it. They're accustomed to hack forums being the standard for genuine forums.

Remove it, and stick to your decision. If you keep re-adding it as you say, it shows weak willpower and an indication of poor judgement.[DOUBLEPOST=1451781982,1451781766][/DOUBLEPOST]

I agree with the first part. What's your reasoning for the banned users list not being public? I find it helpful to know who has been banned from the site and what they were banned for so I know not to associate with those people and not to deal with those users if they contact me off-site. I also agree with the notion of publicly "shaming" those who have done wrong.

I forgot a key bit in the first part. A ban is a big thing, so when I say discussed internally I mean thoroughly discussed. At least 1 of the 6-7 staff will have the ability to make the right judgement call, I hope.

It's spammed with bans to spam bots. You can't search by user, only who is the moderator banning. It's not exactly useful. If you visit the profile of a banned user, by default in XF it should give an error or an indication. Not sure if this site has removed that.[DOUBLEPOST=1451782270][/DOUBLEPOST]

Another great idea, more moderation. I remember hearing someone say "Over-moderation" before, bullshit. Honestly there isn't a big problem with having lots of staff, it just means all threads will be watched after better, Shoutbox will be better managed, and users who scam or attempt to evade bans get properly punished quicker. We need the applications opened up for more staff, both scam reporters and moderators.

The forum should make up for your own incapabilities? Since when? If you don't know how to conduct deals properly, that's not the site's problem. They're unnecessarily increasing liability for the lazy and ignorant.

The count of staff depends entirely on the site. With a site like this, either the person promoting doesn't use their eyes much or everyone on here is worthless. Either way, I don't think many of the staff have proven to be exceptional quite yet. I couldn't name you people I think are completely fit out to become staff in large numbers. I'd say... 2-4 names at the most out of this entire forum so far with the capability to do so and become good staff members. And I imagine they'd decline. This site is hard to have lots of staff on, because it's certain it'll be abused a lot. Plus, lots of staff aren't needed if they do work effectively. One person can do more part time than you think.[DOUBLEPOST=1451782427][/DOUBLEPOST]

They don't use their email. I've contacted their email multiple times when I got falsely banned before. No-one responded within the 2 weeks.

You misunderstood. The forum has *your* email address. If they wish to offer a second chance, they can email *you*.

 

[Nagi]

You misunderstood. The forum has *your* email address. If they wish to offer a second chance, they can email *you*.

Do you really believe that they will do that? Why would they ban someone so that they can contact them later for a second chance?

It happens the other way around. As I didn't have any staff member's Skype's, I was forced to contact the team using e-mail. They didn't respond for the entire duration of my 2 week ban. End of story.

 

[MisfitNerd]

Of course they do. Most people here don't have the smallest bit of logic to realise that's not normal and they don't need it. They're accustomed to hack forums being the standard for genuine forums.

Remove it, and stick to your decision. If you keep re-adding it as you say, it shows weak willpower and an indication of poor judgement.[DOUBLEPOST=1451781982,1451781766][/DOUBLEPOST]

I forgot a key bit in the first part. A ban is a big thing, so when I say discussed internally I mean thoroughly discussed. At least 1 of the 6-7 staff will have the ability to make the right judgement call, I hope.

It's spammed with bans to spam bots. You can't search by user, only who is the moderator banning. It's not exactly useful. If you visit the profile of a banned user, by default in XF it should give an error or an indication. Not sure if this site has removed that.[DOUBLEPOST=1451782270][/DOUBLEPOST]

The forum should make up for your own incapabilities? Since when? If you don't know how to conduct deals properly, that's not the site's problem. They're unnecessarily increasing liability for the lazy and ignorant.

The count of staff depends entirely on the site. With a site like this, either the person promoting doesn't use their eyes much or everyone on here is worthless. Either way, I don't think many of the staff have proven to be exceptional quite yet. I couldn't name you people I think are completely fit out to become staff in large numbers. I'd say... 2-4 names at the most out of this entire forum so far with the capability to do so and become good staff members. And I imagine they'd decline. This site is hard to have lots of staff on, because it's certain it'll be abused a lot. Plus, lots of staff aren't needed if they do work effectively. One person can do more part time than you think.[DOUBLEPOST=1451782427][/DOUBLEPOST]
You misunderstood. The forum has *your* email address. If they wish to offer a second chance, they can email *you*.

In a lot of these scam situations, it isn't "I paid them then they went offline!". Most of them, typically the issue happened after the deal, like with OG accounts getting TID'd back by the original owner, or with coding a plugin taking a much longer time than initially stated. You can't just assume that if someone is scammed, they're therefore an idiot and don't have common sense. Some of the forums' smartest members have been scammed, multiple times. It's the internet, it happens. You can't say it's their fault for getting scammed, that's like telling a woman it's her fault for getting raped. Yes, you should always use caution in all deals, as there's always a potential scam risk, but sometimes it just happens.

The problem is a lot of the staff are on for a few hours here, a few hours there maybe, but also do have other things to do in life, which I completely understand. School, jobs, family/friends, etc. should all take priority. Having less staff though means the few they have have to then do more. If they were to add a few more, like I said about 5-10 max, it could help those who are typically busy in real life with things, as well as give a chance to those who truly want to dedicate their time to MCM.

 

[Dannyj]

There is only one problem with this idea. Xenforo let banned users login but can't do NOTHING even not logout or contact. What they can do is create a Google form for this And hire ban resolvers who are doing this appeals.

 

[Ajdin]

I personally find this a bad idea. Users were unbanned before. All this lead to was drama, questioning of staff corruption and other similar things. The amount of unban requests we'd get on a daily basis would be ridiculous.
To give you an idea, there are currently 1700 banned users.

I'll keep an eye on this thread.

 

[Overlord]

Do you really believe that they will do that? Why would they ban someone so that they can contact them later for a second chance?

They did in the terms of LinuxKernel, and I have many times too. Some users are given second chances.

It happens the other way around. As I didn't have any staff member's Skype's, I was forced to contact the team using e-mail. They didn't respond for the entire duration of my 2 week ban. End of story.

Well, that's how you contact them. 2 weeks isn't much, either. Wait it out. What'd you get banned for anyway?

In a lot of these scam situations, it isn't "I paid them then they went offline!".

I read the first sentence and realise if you're talking about bans for scamming, it's likely bull****. This forum deals with every single off-site deal (yes, they're all off-site. right now MCM is just like craigslist, a place for listing to occur) and thinks they're the overlords (pun not intended) of all the deals that happen. So, as I've said before, the system is a joke and banning for it is too.

When I said the comment I made, I was talking about logical, discussed out bans don't need appealing. If they are to be reversed, they will be by staff decision. The entire basis of that idea working relies on competent, level-headed staff. I can't tell you if you have that. My interaction with staff is minimal.

The problem is a lot of the staff are on for a few hours here, a few hours there maybe, but also do have other things to do in life, which I completely understand.

Yeah, of course. There's a lot you can do in that time.

To give you an idea, there are currently 1700 banned users.

I hope most are spam bots, or else that says a lot.

BTW, as far as I read, Verringer did his best to leave you with a pile of crap to clean up. He went on a mass banning spree before leaving I think. He seemed a bit... destructive... before leaving.

 

[Nagi]

They did in the terms of LinuxKernel, and I have many times too. Some users are given second chances.

Well, that's how you contact them. 2 weeks isn't much, either. Wait it out. What'd you get banned for anyway?

Linux was an exception as he was a close friend of Mick's.
One doesn't not simply put: I will fix bugs for you if you unban me, on an appeal.

In addition, I was banned for Multi-accounting as I was on the same network as another friend of mine while at school.
You also can't really say that EMAIL is a way of contacting someone if they don't read their email.
It's like me sending mail to an unregistered domain; nothing ever goes through. Minus as well not put it there anyways if you don't read it.

I personally find this a bad idea. Users were unbanned before. All this lead to was drama, questioning of staff corruption and other similar things. The amount of unban requests we'd get on a daily basis would be ridiculous.
To give you an idea, there are currently 1700 banned users.

I'll keep an eye on this thread.

Not to name names but honestly, the drama all links back to two to three people.
We all know who they are at this point so I don't need to name names.
And to be fair, these people are only targets of people that they know or have dealt with before previously.
One does not simply flame a stranger out on the streets.

If corruption is such a hard issue, you could always make the appeal section publicly visible.
As each user is banned for their own separate reason, they would have their own separate proofs.
I wouldn't find this to be evasive in any way, although some people may disagree.
This is just another idea to support the one above anyways.

 

[Overlord]

One doesn't not simply put: I will fix bugs for you if you unban me, on an appeal.

A lot of people can fix "major security exploits" here, in fact, numerous have been suggested. None have been fixed. I'm pretty sure that was just an excuse.[DOUBLEPOST=1451843337,1451843251][/DOUBLEPOST]

I was banned for Multi-accounting as I was on the same network as another friend of mine while at school.
You also can't really say that EMAIL is a way of contacting someone if they don't read their email.

Every suggestion I give is hypothetical and dependent on the fact that the team does it properly. If they don't check their email, then, well, that sucks I guess? My suggestion is dependent on certain requirements to work. So if I post something, it can often involve something (obvious) that the staff should already be doing, but may not be.

 

[Nagi]

A lot of people can fix "major security exploits" here, in fact, numerous have been suggested. None have been fixed. I'm pretty sure that was just an excuse.[DOUBLEPOST=1451843337,1451843251][/DOUBLEPOST]
Every suggestion I give is hypothetical and dependent on the fact that the team does it properly. If they don't check their email, then, well, that sucks I guess? My suggestion is dependent on certain requirements to work. So if I post something, it can often involve something (obvious) that the staff should already be doing, but may not be.

Linux was an exception. There's no way to put him up for debate.
Regardless, he is still banned so you could say that his "appeal" got denied.