Make free resources unmoderated

[Perotin]

Hello,

Title.

Reasons why:

• The current system of 1 person checking every resource is a waste of man-power
• It is also not 100% foolproof because humans make mistakes and there are ways to hide malicious code
• People who go on the internet should be responsible for what they download

 

[Perotin]

1. The community was made to be safe, and yeah it isn't foolproof but it is more of a less chance to get malicious programs on your computer.
2. So you are promoting the community staff to remove a rule that protects the community more than it would be protected without someone checking the resources?
3. Are you just trying to do this so one of your free resources get posted and you don't have to wait like 2-3 weeks for it to be posted.

Yes and no. Removing this would make the community less safe but the amount of work & effort spent reading every line of code for every resource is not proportionate to all the malicious code that he'd be catching.

 

[3847473828363]

I don't see why, its just a easy way for malicious members to get people infected due to the fact everyone downloads free stuff

 

[Perotin]

Why would they do this?

You can post premium / paid anything inside of a "free resource" and boom

I don't see why, its just a easy way for malicious members to get people infected due to the fact everyone downloads free stuff

See my bullet points. There is no perfect solution but I believe this would be the best considering:

• The entirety of the resource section depends on 1 person to operate. This is simply bad principle.
• Most resources are not malicious, so Justis is shifting through tons of resources that don't really need checking considering he is not looking for quality with free resources.
• If something is posted that is copyrighted it will eventually be discovered and reported. It is up to the copyright owner to check places where their copyright may have been violated.
• Force people to be diligent when checking resources and not be willy-nilly downloading things. There are tons of products that scan jars for malicious content or you could ask someone to check for you if you are really unsure that knows how to.

 

[3847473828363]

See my bullet points. There is no perfect solution but I believe this would be the best considering:

• The entirety of the resource section depends on 1 person to operate. This is simply bad principle.
• Most resources are not malicious, so Justis is shifting through tons of resources that don't really need checking considering he is not looking for quality with free resources.
• If something is posted that is copyrighted it will eventually be discovered and reported. It is up to the copyright owner to check places where their copyright may have been violated.
• Force people to be diligent when checking resources and not be willy-nilly downloading things. There are tons of products that scan jars for malicious content or you could ask someone to check for you if you are really unsure that knows how to.

Don't fix something that isn't broken. A person shouldn't risk being ratted just because they download a free resource from this site. If the current system is working just fine, what's the point of changing it?

 

[Perotin]

Don't fix something that isn't broken. A person shouldn't risk being ratted just because they download a free resource from this site. If the current system is working just fine, what's the point of changing it?

The whole premise of this thread is that the (free) resource section is not fine for reasons already stated.

 

[3847473828363]

The whole premise of this thread is that the (free) resource section is not fine for reasons already stated.

None of the reasons you listed shows that it isn't fine.

The current system of 1 person checking every resource is a waste of man-power

No it isn't a waste. Protecting users on this site from rats, copyright, and inappropriate content isn't a waste of man power. This will especially happen if there is no one moderating the free resources.

It is also not 100% foolproof because humans make mistakes and there are ways to hide malicious code

It's better then nothing. We shouldn't remove the only layer of 'defense' that there currently is. If you suggested adding more resource moderators, it would've been a great suggestion.

People who go on the internet should be responsible for what they download

That is true, but making it so free resources don't have to get approved would just be more harmful than helpful.

 

[Risk]

Here's my 2 cents. As you stated, most resources aren't malicious. However, I'm sure a majority of people know he checks for such. So, if he stopped I have a feeling it would get worse as they know no one would be checking the code.

 

[Perotin]

You're only suggesting this because you're trying to upload a free resource. If this was implemented, A BIG IF, and you wanted to do paid resources, you'd then make a suggestion like this but for paid resources.

You're right. I am trying to upload a free resource and that is how I became aware of this issue. The motivation behind it has no correlation to the validity of my argument so that is completely irrelevant to this. As for the second, I do not have an agenda to create an influx of ratted software on this site. The reason for not suggesting premium resources is because you need to maintain quality when payment is involved.

That's like saying, "Don't use an anti-virus software, just make sure you don't go to ... sites or download ... things".

Not exactly a 1:1 scenario as you're comparing 1 individual to production-level software that is a lot more thorough and efficient. But in general, if you can tell when something is sketchy you could get by without an anti-virus.

Your reasoning for wanting this implemented has nothing to do with the points you make, but because you are simply just too impatient for Justis to get to yours.

This just doesn't make sense. My reasoning is my reasoning. Just because I made a suggestion for something I view as faulty doesn't mean I'm impatient nor does it mean that I can't voice this thread even if I was impatient. So again, this is irrelevant.

It's better then nothing. We shouldn't remove the only layer of 'defense' that there currently is. If you suggested adding more resource moderators, it would've been a great suggestion.

I could get behind more resource moderators but theoretically, I agree with leaving it unmoderated so that is why I didn't list it.

 

[Ivain]

No. It's not happening, it's that simple.
-You may believe that is not right for the resource section to be dependent on one person. you're right, it isn't. We had other resource mods in the past, but none could even slightly keep up with the volume Justis processes. If for whatever reason he were to stop, other resource mods would be found, but at present there is no such problem perceived.
-your argument that copyright infringement will be discovered and reported is based completely on your own priorities. The priorities of the people who make the content that would be infringed are completely different.
-just because the malicious content is a minor issue now does not mean it will remain as such if resources become unmoderated. If it becomes known anyone who wants to rat some unknowning kids for their MC accounts can upload their stuff to MCM, that will attract a whole crowd of its own.
-just plain resource bloat
You said yourself that when resources are paid, you want to maintain a certain level of quality. I can assure you we want to maintain a certain level of quality for free resources as well. if yours do not meet that level, that's unfortunate but there are hundreds of ways to share resources that do not require them to be a resource on MCM.

even if the technical/hosting thing was not a problem (and since Im no admin I cannot give an accurate estimate of this), bloat from user perspective is still a problem.
Go scroll through PMC's 'recently updated' content for a while, see how easy it is to find things when not based on their popularity. The sheer volume of content is overwhelming, and 90% of it is so low quality that most people will hardly bother with it. Not exactly what I'd call a compelling reason to stop moderating free resources.

People that want to share low-quality content for free can use their own cloud services and sites like Minecraft Forum, PMC, /r/Minecraft, sellfy and whatnot. Resources are hosted directly on MCM, and bloaty resources of low quality are not welcome.


Your main arguments in support of this suggestion are
"the current system is a waste of manpower" (it is moderated by one person, so I have to disagree, however devoted and active this person is). Nor does your current suggestion improve that in any way, all it does is shift the exact same workload from the resource mod approving beforehand to the mods moderating afterwards. Additionally, copyright infringement and/or malicious content would have rather more urgency than "This user called me a son of a whore" reputation reports and the likes, so it would likely increase the overall workload for the staffteam.

"It's not foolproof, therefore we should just remove the system for this section entirely"
hardly a compelling argument, just because your alarm system can be circumvented does not mean you leave your door unlocked

"People on the internet should be responsible for what they download".
Nice sentiment, but neither legal liability nor social accountability work that way. We can claim we're not liable for the consequences of products downloaded from our site, but if we consistently fail or do not even attempt to moderate what content is uploaded to our site, the 'no liability' clause becomes a bit thin, and we'd be facing plenty of community outrage and controversy, costing a LOT of userbase.

All in all I have seen not a single argument that convinces me that this would be better for the site and community as a whole.
I'm sure you believe it would be better for you and perhaps a group of people with similar interests and/or frustrations. However, we have to take into account more than that.

 

[Perotin]

-You may believe that is not right for the resource section to be dependent on one person. you're right, it isn't. We had other resource mods in the past, but none could even slightly keep up with the volume Justis processes. If for whatever reason he were to stop, other resource mods would be found, but at present there is no such problem perceived.

You admitted that you agree with me and there is a problem, but then don't want to do anything about it.

-your argument that copyright infringement will be discovered and reported is based completely on your own priorities. The priorities of the people who make the content that would be infringed are completely different.

This doesn't make sense. When I upload a video on youtube with copyrighted material, it is the job of the copyright owner to seek out my video and claim/strike it. MCM is not liable for this but the person who violated the copyright is. No one is going to sue MCM for hosting copyrighted material but rather ask for it to be taken down which can easily be done. There is simply no way to track all copyrighted material which you probably already know why. Another thing is that with free resources there is fair use. But I'll leave that out as I think you are talking about reuploading content that can't be.

just plain resource bloat
You said yourself that when resources are paid, you want to maintain a certain level of quality. I can assure you we want to maintain a certain level of quality for free resources as well. if yours do not meet that level, that's unfortunate but there are hundreds of ways to share resources that do not require them to be a resource on MCM.

No, free resources should be functional. Not necessarily be qualitative because they are free. As for maintaining quality, I did not want to get personal but considering what is in place is personal in itself I have too. I tried looking for this thread but it appears it was deleted but perhaps Justis can find it or agree with this. There was a premium resource that got allowed and all it did was offer static messages to typical questions in-game. Very basic. Justis allowed this and stated ways to make this better and that he was on the cusp of denying it and then I commented on it pushing him to deny it and he did. Not bashing on Justis but just saying how when one person is the judge of all things resources it makes for inconsistency and human error.

Additionally, copyright infringement and/or malicious content would have rather more urgency than "This user called me a son of a whore" reputation reports and the likes, so it would likely increase the overall workload for the staffteam.

Then there need to be more changes if you think they could not handle this.

but neither legal liability nor social accountability work that way.

Yes, they do. The only responsibility MCM would have is removing malicious/infringing content when found.

hardly a compelling argument, just because your alarm system can be circumvented does not mean you leave your door unlocked

No, don't keep the door unlocked. But if the alarm is inefficient (which you agree it is), you should get a new one (which I am proposing by forcing users to be diligent with what they download).

This is going to be my last message here because everything has been covered so far in this thread and there is no further need to speak as we'd be recycling arguments. It may seem that I am trying to do this for my own gain, or that I am waiting to unleash a horde of bad content which is why there are a lot of disagrees. Not true, but understandable. The backbone of this suggestion is that when things are open and left to their own nature, you get a more diverse spectrum of content which is always good. By moderating every resource you are depriving this because of long wait times and inconsistent standards (see above). It'd be like if everytime you were stopped by the police they were able to search you at will. Now before you say this is different, and I agree, the basis of both situations are the same.

Getting more resource moderators could help this as well which I have stated could be a good alternative, but theoretically leaving it open is the best option.

 

[Ivain]

So what you're saying is that there will be 0 community backlash if every other free resource you download is a virus? Im sorry but your arguments are not convincing me nor will they convince any member of the staff team or even any member of the community as far as I can see.

You still have not given any good argument for changing the status quo. Your view on the status quo is that the current resource system does not work. It does, just not the way you want it to. So what if it takes a little longer to get your free resource approved? The one advantage of your system, increased speed, is immediately counteracted by increased bloat.
Your argument that there was a resource that wasn't of high quality being accepted does not make it valid to ditch all pre-requisite requirements for free resources.

Your argument that other sites and systems do it differently does not mean we should do the same here. This system works.

Your argument that the system needs to change needs to be backed up by it not actually working. So far the only arguments you have provided are the highly subjective one that it's not fast enough and the highly questionable one that it's not foolproof.

Your argument that the system is not good enough and therefore needs to be replaced with a better one would make sense if your proposal was for a better system, instead of the removal of the system.

Your argument that it's the job of the copyright owner to seek out the infringment is great and all, but MCM is not youtube. We choose to do it differently. If you have a problem with that you're free to not use the MCM resource system.

Your attempt at rebutting my argument that your system would create MORE workload by saying that then there need to be more changes is weak as well. If we did NOT implement your system, there would not need to be any additional changes. In addition, one of your apparent arguments was that the current system puts too much workload on one person. This may be true, in a way, but your system would put more workload on MANY people.


All in all, you are correct in saying that should be your last response and that we're just recycling arguments, since you haven't said anything beyond "The current system needs to change because I think it is wrong as it currently is" and I haven't said much beyond "The current system does not need to change, since it works just fine. Give me more reasons than you thinking it doesn't work"[DOUBLEPOST=1527433863][/DOUBLEPOST]

Indeed people are/should be responsible for what they download, but we’re talking about a community composed mostly of leechers, underage people, and just stupid people who at their age should know better.

Not to mention that while we may be able to legally cover our asses for what people download out of the resources, that's not exactly gonna salvage MCM's reputation once it takes the final dip into shit because a large portion of our resources are either stolen or infected.
MCM already has a reputation in many circles for being full of scammers and lowballers. The one thing we do well is that we're far, far better than almost all our competitors, as well as larger.
If we were to get the reputation on top that a big portion of the resources uploaded here cannot be trusted, it would hurt the reputation of the site as well as those people trying to sell legitimate resources here. Not even REMOTELY worth the near-instant approval times.

Not to mention, (to the OP), that I still have not seen an actual alternative system. You make references about how you say the system should be better, but have not made a proper suggestion about how it could be made so. All I've seen is that part of the system should be amputated.

Now, this is my final response as well. There's not really much more to say on this subject, since it all sums up to "this is a bad idea, thnaks for your suggestion, suggestion denied".

 

[jaykk]

How about users need to pass certain requirements like in the investments/loans forum to be able to post resources without verification.

For example, a user which has premium/supreme and has say x many messages and x many reactions is allowed to post free resources without staff having to look at them.