A way around virtual item PAYPAL dispute losses

[Satan]

So I thought of this.

What if you structure your transaction to be that the customer agrees to the TOS that implies they are purchasing a physical item shipped to their address such as a ID tag or little charm you can buy for cheap somewhere like alot of dropshipping stores do.

But but, you'll be including that as a bonus, by purchasing this item they'd qualify for virtual items/perks (in game perks/ranks, services provided on mcm, plugins etc.). The bonus can be specified in the TOS to be voided if the seller (you) see fit.

Would this work since you can provide a tracking number in a physical item paypal dispute?

 

[RajK]

Isn't virtual item's already covered by PayPal seller protection as long as you deliver to the paypal email address or something?


edit: I've never lost a chargeback for any virtual item which is why I'm confused

 

[Blood]

Seems a bit excessive for small underground market purchases :/

 

[Satan]

Isn't virtual item's already covered by PayPal seller protection as long as you deliver to the paypal email address or something?

They claim its covered, but its very difficult to win virtual items/services disputes. So like if a web dev here wants to offer their services, and they get a chargeback months later by their client, how will they tell paypal they delivered services?

They can't. Thus, I'm asking whether this workaround would work?

 

[Satan]

Seems a bit excessive for small underground market purchases :/

These "small underground market purchases" result in 3 digit deals with online services (development, management, marketing, etc.) that result in clients filing disputes that you will struggle to win.

 

[Blood]

They claim its covered, but its very difficult to win virtual items/services disputes. So like if a web dev here wants to offer their services, and they get a chargeback months later by their client, how will they tell paypal they delivered services?

They can't. Thus, I'm asking whether this workaround would work?

I don't use PayPal that much so I'm not that familiar but can't you invoice and within the invoice have a ToS and a description of the good or service?

These "small underground market purchases" result in 3 digit deals with online services (development, management, marketing, etc.) that result in clients filing disputes that you will struggle to win.

yeah for triple digit deals this is worth considering.

 

[RajK]

They claim its covered, but its very difficult to win virtual items/services disputes. So like if a web dev here wants to offer their services, and they get a chargeback months later by their client, how will they tell paypal they delivered services?

They can't. Thus, I'm asking whether this workaround would work?

It's pretty easy actually, just record/screenshot all conversations. Verify identity before sending payment by sending an email to their paypal email, then verify delivery with them. Be very open and honest.

All of this can be done if you get a billing panel/portal of some sort, and deliver products through that. Web dev/design can easily do this. Selling accounts can't do this as easily, but can still record all conversations and such.


Over the past 6 years, I've sold ROBLOX accounts and limiteds, hosting services (used a panel), developer services, management services, and some other things here and there. For every one of these, I was charged back (both types, G&S and F&F) and I won every G&S and won most of the F&F ones due to keeping close attention and verifying identity on larger transactions.

Just to let you know, try this and someone can easily make a dispute that it didn't arrive in the mail, it arrived damaged, etc. Almost making it easier to chargeback

 

[Satan]

I don't use PayPal that much so I'm not that familiar but can't you invoice and within the invoice have a ToS and a description of the good or service?

You can have a TOS or whatever, but it is still a struggle to prove to paypal that services were delivered without an excessive amount of screen recordings of chats you've had with the client months back. They do not always enforce your TOS.

But my general impression is if the buyer is receiving a physical item, its impossible for them to chargeback unless they can prove the item looks different or doesn't function as properly, and in this case Paypal can use your provided tracking number to check whether it got delivered or if Paypal will handle the item through another means. Either way it creates a hassle for the buyer to prove that the item they received is not as described.[DOUBLEPOST=1552434858][/DOUBLEPOST]

Just to let you know, try this and someone can easily make a dispute that it didn't arrive in the mail, it arrived damaged, etc. Almost making it easier to chargeback

If you sent a physical item, you provide tracking number. Paypal would then (by my logic) ask the buyer to provide evidence of the physical item not being as described if they change their dispute reason to that instead of "did not arrive" since the tracking number proves it did arrive to them.

 

[RajK]

If you sent a physical item, you provide tracking number. Paypal would then (by my logic) ask the buyer to provide evidence of the physical item not being as described if they change their dispute reason to that instead of "did not arrive" since the tracking number proves it did arrive to them.

Still leaves the point where you can say the item was damaged, not as described, etc. These are very easy to make up, especially for a small item.

 

[Satan]

Still leaves the point where you can say the item was damaged, not as described, etc. These are very easy to make up, especially for a small item.

Again, the buyer still needs to provide evidence that it is damaged/not as described/etc. which is a hassle to do. The logic would be that the buyer would give up and not even continue try faking/lying about the case.

 

[RajK]

Again, the buyer still needs to provide evidence that it is damaged/not as described/etc. which is a hassle to do. The logic would be that the buyer would give up and not even continue try faking/lying about the case.

It's really not a hassle. I've had it done to me way too easily.
This method is a lot of extra effort for the seller. Both the seller and buyer have to have the correct addresses on their account and such. Any sales made to underaged people using PayPal wouldn't work with this method.


I'd stick to F&F if you're doing risky transactions that may turn into a chargeback.

 

[Satan]

Both the seller and buyer have to have the correct addresses on their account and such. Any sales made to underaged people using PayPal wouldn't work with this method.

Wouldn't Paypal terminate the buyer's paypal account if they turn out to be underage?

Also, the addresses would have to be legitimate but in most scenarios I'd imagine buyers wouldn't put their real addresses and thus can't even provide proof of the item being shipped to them as did not arrive. Why would the seller need to provide an address of sorts?

 

[RajK]

Wouldn't Paypal terminate the buyer's paypal account if they turn out to be underage?

Also, the addresses would have to be legitimate but in most scenarios I'd imagine buyers wouldn't put their real addresses and thus can't even provide proof of the item being shipped to them as did not arrive. Why would the seller need to provide an address of sorts?

It's required for seller protection that the seller has a valid address. This method would easily turn away buyers since it's just an odd "solution" where you could again just F&F it

 

[Satan]

It's required for seller protection that the seller has a valid address. This method would easily turn away buyers since it's just an odd "solution" where you could again just F&F it

F&F is against paypal's policy and could be reported/jeopardize your paypal if the buyer manages to send enough evidence. Had it happen to one of my proxy paypals back when i was underage.

 

[Landon]

Isn't virtual item's already covered by PayPal seller protection as long as you deliver to the paypal email address or something?


edit: I've never lost a chargeback for any virtual item which is why I'm confused

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection
"We cover physical goods (not digital items or services)"

No, digital items have never been supported via PayPal Seller Protection, nor will be. Stripe is a much better alternative, who actually provides decent support for digital products.

To the point of this thread, though, yes. You wouldn't even need any clause like "Buy our charm to receive in-game ranks", it's excessive, and PayPal doesn't care. As long as you mention they bought a charm, provide a valid shipping ID, you will win.

But, it seems excessive to me.