Additions to personal details

[utaninja]

Two suggestions:

1. Gender should have an option for non-binary and a list should be taken from another LGBTQ website with most commonly used genders and have an option to select those.
2. There should be a pronoun option to select from. (they/them, he/him, she/her, other)

 

[Ally]

Or one might just consider replacing the gender option entirely with pronouns tbh.
Knowing people who use she/them (they/her) etc. it'd probably have to be a text field. Anyone who wants to type in things like pe/nis (hello, unoriginal twitter drones) could just have the option cleared and verbal/warned.

Edit also, some people were of the opinion it should be removed entirely (last time) and anyone wanting to use pronouns can put it in their status or about me type thing.
I'm vehemently against that solution. It singles out people who purposely opt to put their pronouns where not required.
(Inb4 the argument "no community = no harassment" bs)

 

[Alexx]

I’m all for people having their different opinions which is absolutely more than okay. However, my standpoint on this I don’t think this is needed like Ally said people can set it as their status if they really want too.

 

[demha]

thats kinda pointless

 

[Ally]

However, my standpoint on this I don’t think this is needed like Ally said people can set it as their status if they really want too.

This is not what my post said, and I offered a reason as to why that's a horrible idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1636701640][/DOUBLEPOST]

I’m all for people having their different opinions which is absolutely more than okay

Cishet people on Twitter put their pronouns on their bio too. It's not exactly anything to do with opinions on pronouns; pronouns aren't new.

 

[Alexx]

anyone wanting to use pronouns can put it in their status

?[DOUBLEPOST=1636727480][/DOUBLEPOST]

like Ally said people can set it as their status if they really want too.

I believe this if the same? If not I am sorry

 

[Delayable]

?[DOUBLEPOST=1636727480][/DOUBLEPOST]

I believe this if the same? If not I am sorry

You took it out of context and she stated why she's against that lol.

 

[Ambrosia]

Just add an "other" option to the existing male/female.

 

[Matty]

I believe this has been suggested multiple times and I have tied opinions on it. I believe the main issue or problem with implementing something like this would be the amount of harassment and abuse that could happen towards users who do actually use non-binary pronouns. Regardless of whether the bias is blatant or not (eg; user sees someone using non-binary pronouns and opts for another freelancer), there is likely to be some sort of discrimination towards users from people who for some reason cannot accept the fact some people don't want to be classed under 'male' or 'female' - this by no means is me trying to victim blame those who would be getting harrassed but safety is a big concern and I believe that potentially harming a user's mental health due to them not knowing the vulnerability of putting non-binary pronouns on their account is simply not worth it.

In terms of a more personal belief, I don't think gender at all should be listed on account settings. As Justis stated on other threads regarding the same subject I don't think it is necessary to add such information since it's an online marketplace - there are no positives of listing your gender on the forum. Adding onto that; users may simply state their gender in the status box if it is something they would like to represent or alternatively could just tell the user they are dealing with their preferred pronouns.

On the opposing view, I see why many people would believe expanding the gender options would be beneficial if there were no risks to the users actually listing their pronouns. I do see how the proposed idea of letting Moderators simply overview the pronouns being listed on profiles could be helpful and might even work.

In conclusion, I believe the main reason why this feature wouldn't be necessary to add is because its risks are too high for the rewards. Although you would be able to openly share your pronouns, you are also being seen as a target to those who are immature and target such communities - mental health is a real issue, especially in recent times and this could potentially just increase any risks for the people themselves.

 

[Ally]

Adding onto that; users may simply state their gender in the status box if it is something they would like to represent or alternatively could just tell the user they are dealing with their preferred pronouns.

You obviously didn't bother reading my counter suggestion to uta's that would mitigate the issue in your post, which blatantly plays to justis' fantasy world, one in which people don't default to he/him on the internet for people they don't know despite that having significant issues of its own, and more.
The last thread on this Justis argued the same god damn thing and I'm sorry but we do live in a world with pronouns, so get used to it.

 

[Matty]

You obviously didn't bother reading my counter suggestion to uta's that would mitigate the issue in your post, which blatantly plays to justis' fantasy world, one in which people don't default to he/him on the internet for people they don't know despite that having significant issues of its own, and more.
The last thread on this Justis argued the same god damn thing and I'm sorry but we do live in a world with pronouns, so get used to it.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I don't disagree we live in a world full of pronouns. I do however believe that personal safety for users, especially minors (a large portion of the site) is something MCM should focus on. People who troll or discriminate against such groups would target those users.

Your solution is essentially giving them a verbal warning. Giving a verbal warning to a user doesn't prevent further discrimination or abuse from outside of the site. It'd be a neat feature to add if some users weren't so immature.

 

[Brandon]

I think the question you have to ask is: "Is this relevant to an online marketplace?"

I think a pronoun field rather than a gender field would be a good idea - as Ally has mentioned, pronouns are by no means a new thing, and they are very useful to correctly address the people you are working with - you shouldn't assume.

Would this act as a big red target on someone's profile, that certain individuals with certain medieval views will go after? Potentially, but how would that be different to an "Other" gender option?

It's interesting to read through the opinions that people have on this.

 

[Ally]

Would this act as a big red target on someone's profile, that certain individuals with certain medieval views will go after? Potentially, but how would that be different to an "Other" gender option?

It's interesting to read through the opinions that people have on this.

Why should placing pronouns, as opposed to gender (both of which are optional already), on one's profile in the appropriate field, paint a target on someone?
We already have a limited gender field, it'd be a matter of swapping it out for pronouns which, if you want to play into Justis' fantasy, are far more market-appropriate. Because sadly not everyone on the internet is a male.
No, what paints a target on people's heads is people posting their pronouns on their status and whatever, when they're not directly supported as a profile field. Evidenced by Humax, Ninja and Jamie who think the unoriginal apache helicopter joke is amusing.

Your solution is essentially giving them a verbal warning. Giving a verbal warning to a user doesn't prevent further discrimination or abuse from outside of the site. It'd be a neat feature to add if some users weren't so immature.

Lol??? What???

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I don't disagree we live in a world full of pronouns. I do however believe that personal safety for users, especially minors (a large portion of the site) is something MCM should focus on. People who troll or discriminate against such groups would target those users.

Yeah and you obviously don't understand what I'm on about either. After all, copying Justis' arguments won't get you very far with that.

 

[Matty]

Why should placing pronouns, as opposed to gender (both of which are optional already), on one's profile in the appropriate field, paint a target on someone?
We already have a limited gender field, it'd be a matter of swapping it out for pronouns which, if you want to play into Justis' fantasy, are far more market-appropriate. Because sadly not everyone on the internet is a male.
No, what paints a target on people's heads is people posting their pronouns on their status and whatever, when they're not directly supported as a profile field. Evidenced by Humax, Ninja and Jamie who think the unoriginal apache helicopter joke is amusing.


Lol??? What???


Yeah and you obviously don't understand what I'm on about either. After all, copying Justis' arguments won't get you very far with that.

I'd love it if you could explain your idea I'm misunderstanding it in that case. From what I understood, your solution to users mocking pronouns was to verbally warn them. But my arguments weren't directly influenced by what Justis said, they're personal opinions. In reality, I don't see why a marketplace wouldn't prioritize a user's safety as opposed to any other factors.

 

[Ally]

I'd love it if you could explain your idea I'm misunderstanding it in that case. From what I understood, your solution to users mocking pronouns was to verbally warn them.

What??? Holy fuck you didn't even read my post.

Or one might just consider replacing the gender option entirely with pronouns tbh.
Knowing people who use she/them (they/her) etc. it'd probably have to be a text field. Anyone who wants to type in things like pe/nis (hello, unoriginal twitter drones) could just have the option cleared and verbal/warned.

Edit also, some people were of the opinion it should be removed entirely (last time) and anyone wanting to use pronouns can put it in their status or about me type thing.
I'm vehemently against that solution. It singles out people who purposely opt to put their pronouns where not required.
(Inb4 the argument "no community = no harassment" bs)

 

[Matty]

What??? Holy fuck you didn't even read my post.

Right I see, I was specifically addressing your solution to those users who were abusing the pronouns field.

Anyone who wants to type in things like pe/nis (hello, unoriginal twitter drones) could just have the option cleared and verbal/warned.

This would also be extra moderation which I'm not opposed to but it may take a while to sort through all of the reports, therefore, meaning some users could feel attacked by disrespectful remarks made within an immature user's pronouns section. This also once again gives internet trolls a way of finding out their next victim or who to target next.

Edit also, some people were of the opinion it should be removed entirely (last time) and anyone wanting to use pronouns can put it in their status or about me type thing.
I'm vehemently against that solution. It singles out people who purposely opt to put their pronouns where not required.

I actually kind of agree with this in regards to singling people out could cause issues for them. However, this wouldn't be much different from your suggested idea of adding a pronoun field since it's essentially the same thing but in a different section of the site.

 

[Ally]

This would also be extra moderation which I'm not opposed to but it may take a while to sort through all of the reports, therefore, meaning some users could feel attacked by disrespectful remarks made within an immature user's pronouns section. This also once again gives internet trolls a way of finding out their next victim or who to target next.

Extra moderation? You're shitting me right. This'd be nothing.
Mate, this would be barely anything. If trolls want to abuse the report system do what you always do AND WARN THEM FOR REPORT SYSTEM ABUSE.
Here, let me put it here:

1.3 Do not abuse the reports/chat-reports/scam-reports/support ticket system.

Maybe you'd even have more than 10 reports sitting in the queue on a day, oh nooo :weary:.

I actually kind of agree with this in regards to singling people out could cause issues for them. However, this wouldn't be much different from your suggested idea of adding a pronoun field since it's essentially the same thing but in a different section of the site.

No, the difference is it would standardise it. Standardisation mitigates (will never completely solve) the issue. Hence less targetting of people.

 

[Matty]

Extra moderation? You're shitting me right. This'd be nothing.
Mate, this would be barely anything. If trolls want to abuse the report system do what you always do AND WARN THEM FOR REPORT SYSTEM ABUSE.
Here, let me put it here:

Maybe you'd even have more than 10 reports sitting in the queue on a day, oh nooo :weary:.

No, the difference is it would standardise it. Standardisation mitigates (will never completely solve) the issue. Hence less targetting of people.

I didn't say it'd be a lot of work, I simply said that it'd take a while to go through a large number of reports. Apologies if it was misunderstood.

To your second point, I agree standardization is important and essential to developing a societal point of view. However, the incentive of adding the feature (that incentive being standardising it) doesn't mean trolls won't target these groups. A large portion of this forum is minors - at no moment in time would I want to see someone being harassed for being themselves and this would quite literally give trolls the desired victims.

I do however agree that from a societal point of view, standarising pronouns and encouraging people to be themselves is beneficial to growing and not being in a world full of hate.

 

[Ally]

To your second point, I agree standardization is important and essential to developing a societal point of view. However, the incentive of adding the feature (that incentive being standardising it) doesn't mean trolls won't target these groups. A large portion of this forum is minors - at no moment in time would I want to see someone being harassed for being themselves and this would quite literally give trolls the desired victims.

You're missing. The fucking. Point. Of standardising. Pronouns. On. The. Forum.[DOUBLEPOST=1636934005][/DOUBLEPOST]

I didn't say it'd be a lot of work, I simply said that it'd take a while to go through a large number of reports. Apologies if it was misunderstood.

God forbid there are more than 10 reports on the queue oh my god.

 

[Matty]

You're missing. The fucking. Point. Of standardising. Pronouns. On. The. Forum.[DOUBLEPOST=1636934005][/DOUBLEPOST]
God forbid there are more than 10 reports on the queue oh my god.

I don’t see us coming to an agreement since we’ve kinda gone in circles but I’m fine with continuing this in DMs if you want