Change My Mind: Cape Codes Should Be ALLOWED

[US]

• With code prices reaching $500+ for just a 2016 (currently an active buy order of $600 for a 2016) everyone uses middle-men at these prices.

• Set up a popup that says "Reminder: always use a reputable middleman!"

• Arguing that codes are too easy to scam is bullshit. Everything is fucking easy to scam if u are reputable. Furthermore couldn't you scam with bitcoin just as easily? (simply get the person to go first)

• The problem is not that cape codes are easy to scam. The problem are the people who wouldn't use a middleman (but these type of scams of getting people to go first HAPPEN IN EVERY CATEGORY).

• How do we prevent noobs from going first? You fucking can't. Give them a reminder to use a middleman (you cant prevent stupid, sorry its a fact).

• Finally, someone give me some got damn evidence of cape codes being more easy to scam than any other category. How is a cape code more easy to scam than a og account? (if the buyer goes first in both occasions they are at risk of scams.)

"You can simply fake a cape code by doing a google search for a minecon ticket."

1. You can do a reverse image search of the image (if they didnt edit it then you should find the same exact image).
2. What if they edited it? Ask, will you use Doge as a middleman? If they say no then I think you know the code doesnt exist.

Rules for cape codes:
1. If they refuse to middleman, either a suspension or a permanent ban from the cape code section.
2. Failure to prove that the code is legit (or its proven fake) is a ban.
3. Have its own section under Cape Accounts.


Day 1: Mind Changed?
No, not at all.

The common theme amongst those that disagree is that codes are untraceable. So is EVERYTHING in the gift code/license forum. Furthermore minecraft accounts have their own form of being untraceable. If an account has 5+ owners and one of them pulls it how does anyone find out who did it?

 

[ItsMatt]

Should've been on the forums months ago.

 

[Justis]

You can always verify that a bitcoin transaction was made, received, and when, because the blockchain is public. Handling a scam report on such a transaction would be a cakewalk.
With cape codes, you have no way of knowing when it was redeemed, and by what account it was redeemed.

This means our scam resolver team has absolutely no means of concluding whether the seller gave a code that had already been redeemed, or if the buyer redeemed it and then claimed it didn’t work. This is the same if a middleman is involved. We have no way of ensuring the middleman didn’t just take the code. There is absolutely no information available from the transaction. Any scam report filed over these would be useless unless the scammer willingly admit to it. The scammers would always get away with their actions and be able to continue using our forum for scamming people.

Unlike accounts, be them Minecraft accounts or Gmail accounts, the people who are scammed of their codes have no way of contacting support and getting the code back. If it’s gone, it’s gone. The scammer has it, period.

These two things combined make cape codes an extraordinarily dangerous item to be sold on our platform. The number of scams we saw and were unable to provide justice for when cape codes were allowed to be sold was so extreme that it forced us to ban their sale on our platform. Our community has seen far fewer scams because of it.

All of the above aside, the largest issue with cape codes is simply the market itself. The fact that legitimate sellers make up the minority of the market means that it’s a tumor not worth attaching to our community and subjecting them to. We would be knowingly bringing in more scammers than we are bringing in legitimate sellers, and that will always be the wrong decision.

 

[US]

You can always verify that a bitcoin transaction was made, received, and when, because the blockchain is public. Handling a scam report on such a transaction would be a cakewalk.
With cape codes, you have no way of knowing when it was redeemed, and by what account it was redeemed.

This means our scam resolver team has absolutely no means of concluding whether the seller gave a code that had already been redeemed, or if the buyer redeemed it and then claimed it didn’t work. This is the same if a middleman is involved. We have no way of ensuring the middleman didn’t just take the code. There is absolutely no information available from the transaction. Any scam report filed over these would be useless unless the scammer willingly admit to it. The scammers would always get away with their actions and be able to continue using our forum for scamming people.

Unlike accounts, be them Minecraft accounts or Gmail accounts, the people who are scammed of their codes have no way of contacting support and getting the code back. If it’s gone, it’s gone. The scammer has it, period.

These two things combined make cape codes an extraordinarily dangerous item to be sold on our platform. The number of scams we saw and were unable to provide justice for when cape codes were allowed to be sold was so extreme that it forced us to ban their sale on our platform. Our community has seen far fewer scams because of it.

All of the above aside, the largest issue with cape codes is simply the market itself. The fact that legitimate sellers make up the minority of the market means that it’s a tumor not worth attaching to our community and subjecting them to. We would be knowingly bringing in more scammers than we are bringing in legitimate sellers, and that will always be the wrong decision.

Everything u just said is irrelevant if u required a MiddleMan. Like I said, if they say "no middleman" then you know the code doesn't exist especially considering Doge's rep with cape deals.

You went on a tangent about how people had some safety net with Minecraft accounts. If someone sends Bitcoin first then it's gone forever (and gratz u have proof u went first and sent it). Also what's the safety net through mojang support if the seller doesn't provide oge or tid??

When u make a thread for mc accounts it says Transaction ID, yes/no. For cape codes have one that is middleman? Yes/no. If clicked no have a pop-up that says a MiddleMans are required for all cape code deals.

Your whole argument is based off of someone going first and you are not changing anyone's mind that going first for irrecoverable money such as btc is not smart.Again you allowed cape code deals with no protocol. Then once it blew up in your face you blamed the scammers instead of the protocol. Please tell me how a middle man protocol would knowingly bring you more scammers.


I also want to ask you if you are so afraid about your staff team finding out about who does a scam then why is TID allowed to be provided at all. If an account is passed down 10 times with tid and OGE then one of the owners pulls it, where are the records that ur staff team will have?

 

[ItsMatt]

Everything u just said is irrelevant if u required a MiddleMan. Like I said, if they say "no middleman" then you know the code doesn't exist especially considering Doge's rep with cape deals.

You went on a tangent about how people had some safety net with Minecraft accounts. If someone sends Bitcoin first then it's gone forever (and gratz u have proof u went first and sent it). Also what's the safety net through mojang support if the seller doesn't provide oge or tid??

When u make a thread for mc accounts it says Transaction ID, yes/no. For cape codes have one that is middleman? Yes/no. If clicked no have a pop-up that says a MiddleMans are required for all cape code deals.

Your whole argument is based off of someone going first and you are not changing anyone's mind that going first for irrecoverable money such as btc is not smart.Again you allowed cape code deals with no protocol. Then once it blew up in your face you blamed the scammers instead of the protocol. Please tell me how a middle man protocol would knowingly bring you more scammers.


I also want to ask you if you are so afraid about your staff team finding out about who does a scam then why is TID allowed to be provided at all. If an account is passed down 10 times with tid and OGE then one of the owners pulls it, where are the records that ur staff team will have?

He also provided a point about the middleman just running off with it and no trace whatsoever. He has a point.

 

[US]

He also provided a point about the middleman just running off with it and no trace whatsoever. He has a point.

A middle man can run off with any item. A Minecraft account, Bitcoin, etc..

 

[ItsMatt]

A middle man can run off with any item. A Minecraft account, Bitcoin, etc..

Yes but like he stated you can't tell if it was applied or not, there is no information.

 

[Harry]

A middle man can run off with any item. A Minecraft account, Bitcoin, etc..

It can be proven that a middleman took an MC account, or other products and ran off.

However, with cape codes, the middleman could've redeemed it, passed it onto the buyer, and acted as if nothing happened. There would be nothing linking the scam back to the middleman.

Allowing cape codes would significantly increase the commonality of the scam, which the end purchaser wouldn't ever get justice for since we have no idea of when and who by the cape code was redeemed.

 

[MyNameIsAres]

A Minecraft cape code for $500? This market is very special sometimes.

 

[doodle]

Harry has a great point here. The point with code scamming is the scam can't be traced back to the Middleman. Since the Middleman can't verify it exists without testing it, he would have to give the code that the Seller gave him, meaning if it was real, he could redeem it and pass it on to the Buyer who would be none the wiser that the Middleman claimed it instead of the Seller. Furthermore, if the Buyer claimed the code was false, the Middleman has no way of knowing whether they claimed it or if the code is actually false; Let me provide you with a scenario:

Seller: Opens chat and adds Buyer & Middleman
S: Gives the code to M privately
B: Gives payment for M to hold
M: Gives the code to B privately
B: "This code says it doesn't work!"

Now, as seen above, the Middleman could hold all the cards here; He could scam with the code and the payment, which yes, is just as easy as any other scam. However, as long as the Middleman returns the funds, he could have easily scammed the code and the Seller wouldn't know and the Buyer wouldn't know. The Seller would assume the Buyer redeemed it and is claiming it is false to scam, while the Buyer thinks the Seller sold him a false code to scam. Let's try a different scenario, assuming the Middleman does not scam and the Buyer claims the code is false, when the Seller knows is not. The Seller has 2 options; 1) Believe the Middleman scammed by redeeming the code and passing it along or 2) Believe the Buyer scammed by redeeming the code and lying; The Seller has no way of knowing. The Middleman also has 2 options; 1) Believe the Seller scammed by providing a false code to him or 2) Believe the Buyer scammed by redeeming the code and lying; The Middleman has no way of knowing. And in the last scenario, the Seller scams by providing a false code, with about the same outcomes. I know this is kind of confusing, let me know if you don't understand.

TL;DR - Anyone involved in the deal could scam, and nobody (except the scammer) would know who did it, and thus the scammer could never be punished. Unlike, BTC/MC Accounts, which can easily be traced to the scammer.

 

[Harry]

As already covered by Justis, we have no way of verifying the codes, and that isn't going to change anytime soon. There's no practical and long-term solution or system for checking codes, and that's because Mojang doesn't want you to.

If you could, anyone could brute force codes and sell them. You may not be very successful on your own, but collectively, as more and more users attempt to brute force, you'll get somewhere, and we obviously wouldn't want these within the market.

There have been quite a few suggestions before to allow code selling again, but all have been denied, as it's just an unnecessary risk to the community.

 

[Choo]

maybe if Doge was still staff he could moderate the cape code section and force people to verify codes through him in order to be listed


But I see where staff are coming from here, disallowing codes to be sold here is a better safe than sorry decision.

 

[doodle]

maybe if Doge was still staff he could moderate the cape code section and force people to verify codes through him in order to be listed

But then he would have to Middleman every deal, seems like a pain in the ass for him to do.

 

[Choo]

But then he would have to Middleman every deal, seems like a pain in the ass for him to do.

you realize hes one of the only people that know how to redeem codes, he has to mm the marjority of cape code deals already

whatever hes not staff anymore and its not our decision

 

[doodle]

you realize hes one of the only people that know how to redeem codes, he has to mm the marjority of cape code deals already

whatever hes not staff anymore and its not our decision

I know, I'm just saying he probably doesn't want to have to Middleman every deal in that section.

 

[shen]

seeing how doge alr got kicked off the staff team I doubt they’d allow cape codes to be sold on the contingency that doge be the dedicated mm for codes.

also cape codes are by far the easiest thing in the mc com to scam with, saying having a dedicated mm for this will fix all the problems is an extreme exaggeration. Codes are the most valuable/desired thing on market right now and literally anyone can say they’re selling one.[DOUBLEPOST=1567170806][/DOUBLEPOST]Codes leave no trails if they’re stolen. Someone who’s supposed to be confirming if they work could always just use them for themselves and say that they’ve alr been used. If an mm runs off with your cape code it’s more severe then them running off with your accounts. They shouldn’t be allowed to be sold here. Too much buyer risk/seller risk

 

[Joshua C]

Time to make a cape code checker.


Edit: I could if MCM pays me, .

 

[shen]

I mainly just agree with Choo tho. It fr is jus better safe then sorry and NOT allow them to be sold on here.[DOUBLEPOST=1567171362][/DOUBLEPOST]

Time to make a cape code checker.


Edit: I could if MCM pays me, .

Checking if codes work actually isn’t that hard iirc if the method hasn’t changed in a while.