Denounce and prohibit homophobia, transphobia and general discrimination [1.6 Rule & Point Changes]

[Sosa]

G'day g'day,

As a member of the LGBT+ community, I feel that this is an issue that needs to be addressed.


THE PROBLEM

Over the past few months, it has become apparent that this site has been very heavily derogatory toward certain community members and its users who say such things are not punished accordingly nor are they impacted in any notable capacity.


THE 'REASONING'

Some users have gone as far as to get into the etymology of the word 'transphobia' stating that they aren't 'scared' of transgender people. This. Is. Not. The. Meaning. Of. Transphobia.
Some users also think that their biblical or personal based opinion is a fact when it is very clearly not.
Other users plead that their discriminatory words and actions align with their country's 'freedom of speech' law. I have said this many times, and I will say it again; having the ability to say whatever you want to say doesn't mean that people won't be offended by it.
But, I don't know why I'm going on about freedom of speech, as it doesn't actually apply on this site.
This site is run under Australian law as Mick Capital Pty. Ltd. is a registered Australian business that this site runs under (as seen in the site's copyright footer).
This means that, in Australia, we have laws protecting the LGBT+ community and any other marginalised cohorts - in simple terms, transphobes and homophobes get fined for their discriminatory words and actions.
From 1st August 2013, discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people became illegal for the first time under national law. Many people have since received fines up to $5000 AUD, depending on publicity.
For any Australians, namely the one that runs this site, this would be found under the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 and was passed under the Sex Discrimination Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Intersex Status) Act 2013.

Spoiler: Examples from the site

MY SUGGESTION

In line with Australian laws and common human decency and respect, denounce and prohibit the use of homophobic and transphobic comments, remarks and actions as well as other discriminatory slurs.
This can be achieved by;

• Changing the current 1.6 rule as it is far too broad and needs clarification regarding what is considered 'disrespectful'.
• Editing the warning points for 1.6 violations depending on the severity;
  • Light Offence (basic disrespect) - 5 Warning Points
  • Moderate Offence (homophobia, transphobia, racism, etc.) - 10 Warning Points
  • Major Offence (harassment, excessive moderate offence violations) - 15-20 Warning Points
• Posting a thread 100% denouncing hatred toward marginalised cohorts

 

[Sosa]

Activity is an interesting statement and while yes, more active the better, that's always the case, a lot of our backlog is quite low, especially our mod reports.
As for special treatment, I haven't seen a good case of that where we have not dealt with the staff member involved.

I don't really know what you were thinking here. Normally I would just warn and delete and not give a post like this any time, but considering you chose to respond and say in this thread of all places, let me just make an example.

This is what not to do.

This breaks 1.6, and in no means is allowed on MCM.

Everyone is allowed to their opinion, but if your opinion is that it's a mental illness, that opinion can't be shared here, that's directly disrespectful to every single person who is part of that community.

So don't act like this, especially not on a thread where 2 staff members explicitly said we don't tolerate homophobia and transphobia.

Will he be receiving warning points for his comments?

 

[Kram]

Will he be receiving warning points for his comments?

As you can see, Slipe is suspended as a result of being warned for his message.

 

[Orochimaru]

Other users plead that their discriminatory words and actions align with their country's 'freedom of speech' law. I have said this many times, and I will say it again; having the ability to say whatever you want to say doesn't mean that people won't be offended by it.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that excuse but xkcd summed it up on that argument

 

[Sosa]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that excuse but xkcd summed it up on that argument

This is amazing

 

[Orochimaru]

How is this not a thing already

Well, part of the r reason could be because it's hard to tell what's serious and what's not.

 

[Sosa]

How is this not a thing already

Because people think that their biblical or personal based opinion is fact.

 

[Jackk]

G'day g'day,

As a member of the LGBT+ community, I feel that this is an issue that needs to be addressed.


THE PROBLEM

Over the past few months, it has become apparent that this site has been very heavily derogatory toward certain community members and its users who say such things are not punished accordingly nor are they impacted in any notable capacity.


THE 'REASONING'

Some users have gone as far as to get into the etymology of the word 'transphobia' stating that they aren't 'scared' of transgender people. This. Is. Not. The. Meaning. Of. Transphobia.
Some users also think that their biblical or personal based opinion is a fact when it is very clearly not.
Other users plead that their discriminatory words and actions align with their country's 'freedom of speech' law. I have said this many times, and I will say it again; having the ability to say whatever you want to say doesn't mean that people won't be offended by it.
But, I don't know why I'm going on about freedom of speech, as it doesn't actually apply on this site.
This site is run under Australian law as Mick Capital Pty. Ltd. is a registered Australian business that this site runs under (as seen in the site's copyright footer).
This means that, in Australia, we have laws protecting the LGBT+ community and any other marginalised cohorts - in simple terms, transphobes and homophobes get fined for their discriminatory words and actions.
From 1st August 2013, discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people became illegal for the first time under national law. Many people have since received fines up to $5000 AUD, depending on publicity.
For any Australians, namely the one that runs this site, this would be found under the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 and was passed under the Sex Discrimination Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Intersex Status) Act 2013.

Spoiler: Examples from the site

MY SUGGESTION

In line with Australian laws and common human decency and respect, denounce and prohibit the use of homophobic and transphobic comments, remarks and actions as well as other discriminatory slurs.
This can be achieved by;

• Changing the current 1.6 rule as it is far too broad and needs clarification regarding what is considered 'disrespectful'.
• Editing the warning points for 1.6 violations depending on the severity;
  • Light Offence (basic disrespect) - 5 Warning Points
  • Moderate Offence (homophobia, transphobia, racism, etc.) - 10 Warning Points
  • Major Offence (harassment, excessive moderate offence violations) - 15-20 Warning Points
• Posting a thread 100% denouncing hatred toward marginalised cohorts

I have read through every message and it took me around 2 hours but I got there. First of all, can I say I don’t know how people can write such amounts with so much detail and wording. I swear it takes me like a full day to write a paragraph for my school essay lol. Anyways, I agree with you. I mean in my opinion I don’t see why people hate on that community in the first place. I say just let people live how they want and it makes me feel better that I’m not putting anyone down and that everyone’s happy and getting along. It doesn’t sit right with me putting other people down to boost my own self esteem. I see that it would be a much happier world if we all got along. Even if you still have a problem with them for whatever reason it doesn’t mean you should say it. Just let them live, they haven’t done anything to you. Now I’m gonna be honest I might sound quite civil but a couple years ago I was just the person I’ve stated. I was influenced by friends to be this person I wasn’t. However, I’ve changed now and for the better. People made out this community to be awful but in reality there was nothing wrong. It’s like this whole idea of the LGBT community to be bad and I don’t understand where it comes from. It was just sorted imprinted into me but I had an epiphany one night and had to take a step back and think, why? If it doesn’t negatively impact you why do we all think this way.
I understand it’s not really on the topic of changing the 1.6 rule. Regardless I wanted to share my opinion and I hope you have a nice day

 

[Ted]

I personally don't agree with the people who make such comments on this website that are used as ammunition to offend others. Please don't forget though that you have the right to be offended, no one can take that away from you. But being offended shouldn't result in a crime for the offender. As far as that goes, it depends on the context of the situation and what is being offended.

I'd also like to add that Mc-Market isn't here to educate individuals on how they should act around others. Whether you call it being a "decent human being" or anything else, that's not what this website is for. Nonetheless, Mc-Market should feel like a safe space for everyone to come to, regardless of other user beliefs. But, like I said that's not something they have to do, but they try to.

Edit:
As far as making the term broader, I believe if terms become too broad, they should contain a subsection with all listed examples.

 

[Orochimaru]

I personally don't agree with the people who make such comments on this website that are used as ammunition to offend others. Please don't forget though that you have the right to be offended, no one can take that away from you. But being offended shouldn't result in a crime for the offender. As far as that goes, it depends on the context of the situation and what is being offended.

I'd also like to add that Mc-Market isn't here to educate individuals on how they should act around others. Whether you call it being a "decent human being" or anything else, that's not what this website is for. Nonetheless, Mc-Market should feel like a safe space for everyone to come to, regardless of other user beliefs. But, like I said that's not something they have to do, but they try to.

Edit:
As far as making the term broader, I believe if terms become too broad, they should contain a subsection with all listed examples.

I agree with this, but what about those who don't support the LGBT+ or whatever it is now community, but also don't oppose it? For example me, my opinion just does whatever the fuck makes you happy as long as you don't hurt anyone else. That simple.

 

[Ally]

I personally don't agree with the people who make such comments on this website that are used as ammunition to offend others. Please don't forget though that you have the right to be offended, no one can take that away from you. But being offended shouldn't result in a crime for the offender. As far as that goes, it depends on the context of the situation and what is being offended.

I'd also like to add that Mc-Market isn't here to educate individuals on how they should act around others. Whether you call it being a "decent human being" or anything else, that's not what this website is for. Nonetheless, Mc-Market should feel like a safe space for everyone to come to, regardless of other user beliefs. But, like I said that's not something they have to do, but they try to.

Edit:
As far as making the term broader, I believe if terms become too broad, they should contain a subsection with all listed examples.

With all due respect, when there are people who actively harass and cause harm to others - especially with regards to this content - this does not apply, at all.

The idea around this also isn't about feeling insulted. This is about genuine discrimination. And as much as I understand this, you've also got 1.6 here too. For example; you can't go round calling people "fuckwit", or <insert slur here>, nor can you use slurs. This is irrespective of whether people take offence to it or not.
Yeah, people are entitled to their own opinion. But people aren't entitled to use their opinions as a weapon against other people. Especially if someone's trying to put across their opinion as 'fact'.

I agree with this, but what about those who don't support the LGBT+ or whatever it is now community, but also don't oppose it? For example me, my opinion just does whatever the fuck makes you happy as long as you don't hurt anyone else. That simple.

No one said you have to have an opinion or directly show support. At a minimum you just have to be respectful, and if that's what you're being, then we have no issue.

 

[Orochimaru]

With all due respect, when there are people who actively harass and cause harm to others - especially with regards to this content - this does not apply, at all.

The idea around this also isn't about feeling insulted. This is about genuine discrimination. And as much as I understand this, you've also got 1.6 here too. For example; you can't go round calling people "fuckwit", or <insert slur here>, nor can you use slurs. This is irrespective of whether people take offence to it or not.
Yeah, people are entitled to their own opinion. But people aren't entitled to use their opinions as a weapon against other people. Especially if someone's trying to put across their opinion as 'fact'.


No one said you have to have an opinion or directly show support. At a minimum you just have to be respectful, and if that's what you're being, then we have no issue.

No one said you have to have an opinion or directly show support. At a minimum you just have to be respectful, and if that's what you're being, then we have no issue.

That's not exactly true, from what I can see the LGBTQ community is a *very* "either you're with us, or you're not community". Not saying everyone is, but that is def what I have seen, at least where I live anyway.

 

[Orochimaru]

Glad 2 people disagree with me seeing the LGBGT(from MY pov) a "either you're with us, or you're not community"

 

[Ally]

Glad 2 people disagree with me seeing the LGBGT(from MY pov) a "either you're with us, or you're not community"

I wasn't going to reply before, but, I'm not disagreeing with your point of view, I'm disagreeing with the implication of your post.
I made a statement that you contradicted anecdotally from whatever perspective you have. It's obviously not going to be the same everywhere, why would it be? People are different everywhere. But the implication of your post is that the community itself behaves that way in general, which is not the case (as much as you admit it's not everyone).

Yeah it'll be different and I'm not saying you're wrong. There are lots of communities where it is like that - and that doesn't just apply to the LGBTQ community - take Reddit for example.

 

[Brandon]

Yeah, of course, we shouldn't actively spread homophobic views, but nobody wants to hear you bitch about whatever you decide to get offended by either.
This post is implying that this is a huge problem on mcm - and it isn't.

Believe what you want to believe, be who you want to be, preach what you want to preach - but the majority of us don't want to hear it.

 

[Sosa]

Yeah, of course, we shouldn't actively spread homophobic views, but nobody wants to hear you bitch about whatever you decide to get offended by either.
This post is implying that this is a huge problem on mcm - and it isn't.

Believe what you want to believe, be who you want to be, preach what you want to preach - but the majority of us don't want to hear it.

Just a quick question; are you apart of the LGBT+ community?

 

[7wh]

Yeah, of course, we shouldn't actively spread homophobic views, but nobody wants to hear you bitch about whatever you decide to get offended by either.
This post is implying that this is a huge problem on mcm - and it isn't.

Believe what you want to believe, be who you want to be, preach what you want to preach - but the majority of us don't want to hear it.

Read this post. Your thought in valuable, but in this case, it's stupid.

My opinion is that the rules are restrictive as they already are, and no need to modify them.

 

[I_Luv_Cowz]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that excuse but xkcd summed it up on that argument

Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction.

Although I don't think that harassment, hate speech, or slurs should have any place on this forum, having a conversation and sharing your ideas & beliefs shouldn't be censored. For example, if you express that you're a Christian and don't support the LGBT community, this shouldn't be censored. As long as "homophobic" expressions are respectful, there shouldn't be an issue.

The current rule (1.6 Disrespectful/Harassing/Hateful/Trolling Behavior): Protects against hate speech, disrespectful remarks, and harassment. I think that any further rules against "homophobic" expressions would be too far (Example: making it against the rules to express that you don't support LGBT).

 

[Cade]

1) Just because some people don't support LGBTQ doesn't make them homophobic.

2) LGBTQ people need to learn that not everyone is going to support you and you're going to have to deal with it.