Disallow pure and consistant advertising in shoutbox

[Justis]

I'm not sure how else to put this...

I'd like to consider advertisements sent one after another, over and over and over again, to be spam.
I'd like to punish users who do this the same way I would punish a spammer.

It doesn't matter to me, whether or not they wait the five minutes required...
If they're just sitting there... Saying absolutely nothing... Only using shoutbox as a billboard, with a timer on their desk, posting their link at they very second they're technically allowed to... Contributing nothing...
They're no different from a spam bot.

Here are just a couple examples of what I'm talking about..

Spoiler: Example1

Or even...

Spoiler: Example2

These messages are old, and a bit exaggerated.
There were moments when the users posting these actually talked.. Said a message or two in shoutbox that wasn't an advertisement.

But for those cases where it's constant ad after ad after ad, and nothing else, every chance they get... It's quite annoying. To myself, and the other users that use shoutbox frequently.
Their name becomes only a symbol of irritation.
Sometimes, when shoutbox is inactive, a full screen of that user's ads is all you can see.
It's not something a non-premium member would want to pay for.
I can't do anything about it, because technically it's in correspondence with the rules?

So I'm asking for your guys' opinions.
Should this be considered spam?

Say..... 3+ advertisement messages in a row without any conversation from that member? ^.-
Sounds fair to me.
What do you guys think?

 

[Justis]

It's kind of dumb you're asking for this, considering the way some of you act sometimes:
1. Gruss gave me a warning for saying 'fuck'
2. The way you sometimes treat people in the shoutbox:


Let's not forget the one time you kicked me for saying OG Party, <some mineplex server>, yet you allowed other constant advertising at the time.

If you want change, at least be consistent.

There's a time and a place to joke around, which was my intent with IseeHD, when that screenshot was taken.
If there was any confusion in that in the few messages you decided to save for some reason, it was clear afterwards.
Anyways, I try to gauge, with each individual members, how they prefer I talk to them.
Like I'm a their little service bot, like they're my friend, like a brother/sister, whatever.
If you have complaints, I'd prefer it be over messages directed at you, so I can modify how I act to comply with your preferences; but this message was not for you, so I can't do anything.
Sometimes I make mistakes, sometimes all of the staff make mistakes.
But I assure you, we do everything in our power to avoid them, while still having a good time with our fellow members.
However, Zap is right.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was suggesting.
You can't say staff have to be perfect before any new policies to make the shoutbox a better place can be established.
In that case, shoutbox will never get better.
That's not pessimism, that's a fact.
Let's abandon that logic and move forward with improving the shoutbox where it can actually be improved.

I haven't noticed any problem with the way things currently are and I look at the Shoutbox quite often. If nobody's on using the Shoutbox and somebody wants to waste their time spamming their ad every five minute, then let them. It's not their fault that nobody else is active at the time.

I don't see why it bothers you. Maybe instead of trying to introduce a rule to fix the issue, you should try and encourage activity at that time instead of letting the Shoutbox fill up with spam.

That's against the rules if I'm not mistaken.

This is correct. When nobody is online the chat box will either be filled with advertisements that nobody sees, or messages that are hours old. Nobody sees either of them so I'm not sure why it's an issue.

I don't agree with this; if you wait 5 minutes between messages it isn't spam, if you see it multiple times in the same area then the chat just isn't active.

The shoutbox being inactive isn't the problem.
This is only one visible result of the problem.
The problem is people using shoutbox purely for advertising, and nothing else.
All of our shoutbox advertisement rule are aimed at one thing...
Preventing shoutbox from becoming a billboard, or "ad-box".

That's not what shoutbox is for.
Shoutbox is for users to come and chat with each other. Socialize. Become closer.
This policy would bring us back to that idea.
Forcing people to use shoutbox, and us shoutbox users, as more than just an adspace.

 

[Gruss]

Nice suggestion, I'd suggest putting up a poll

 

[CakeSG]

Gruss is one of these advertisers. All he does is going around and asking for feedback then advertises a link to a bad website or something.

 

[Justis]

Gruss is one of these advertisers. All he does is going around and asking for feedback then advertises a link to a bad website or something.

Let's stop him then. You and I.
With this new policy.

 

[CakeSG]

Let's stop him then. You and I.
With this new policy.

Yeah I agree with this. I advertise sometimes but always posts a lot too. Lets stop Gruss and him asking for feedback on sites every few minutes!

 

[IseeHD]

Justis and I always joke around, it's never his intent to emotionally put me down in any way and I never consider what he says to me to be a flame. At the moment in time I did think it was in a serious way but justis clarified he was only joking and he gave me great input on that Gyazo I put. Justis isn't lying when he says it's not his intent.

 

[nara~kavi]

There's a time and a place to joke around, which was my intent with IseeHD, when that screenshot was taken.
If there was any confusion in that in the few messages you decided to save for some reason, it was clear afterwards.
Anyways, I try to gauge, with each individual members, how they prefer I talk to them.
Like I'm a their little service bot, like they're my friend, like a brother/sister, whatever.
If you have complaints, I'd prefer it be over messages directed at you, so I can modify how I act to comply with your preferences; but this message was not for you, so I can't do anything.
Sometimes I make mistakes, sometimes all of the staff make mistakes.
But I assure you, we do everything in our power to avoid them, while still having a good time with our fellow members.
However, Zap is right.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was suggesting.
You can't say staff have to be perfect before any new policies to make the shoutbox a better place can be established.
In that case, shoutbox will never get better.
That's not pessimism, that's a fact.
Let's abandon that logic and move forward with improving the shoutbox where it can actually be improved.





The shoutbox being inactive isn't the problem.
This is only one visible result of the problem.
The problem is people using shoutbox purely for advertising, and nothing else.
All of our shoutbox advertisement rule are aimed at one thing...
Preventing shoutbox from becoming a billboard, or "ad-box".

That's not what shoutbox is for.
Shoutbox is for users to come and chat with each other. Socialize. Become closer.
This policy would bring us back to that idea.
Forcing people to use shoutbox, and us shoutbox users, as more than just an adspace.

I think the Shoutbox is fine as an ad-space on a marketplace website. It's BeBosny and other admins who keep saying that this place is a marketplace first and a social hub second, so having the shoutbox be a place entirely for being social makes no sense.

I really, really don't think it is an issue.

Gruss is one of these advertisers. All he does is going around and asking for feedback then advertises a link to a bad website or something.

I haven't ever seen that and I don't know what you're referring to. I don't think he over-advertises at all. I've never even seen him advertise anything.

 

[Cooltime2]

Then if you remove this, there must be a way to advertise our services on mcm then because it is one of mcm premium perks.

 

[Justis]

I think the Shoutbox is fine as an ad-space on a marketplace website. It's BeBosny and other admins who keep saying that this place is a marketplace first and a social hub second, so having the shoutbox be a place entirely for being social makes no sense.

I really, really don't think it is an issue.

I haven't ever seen that and I don't know what you're referring to. I don't think he over-advertises at all. I've never even seen him advertise anything.

Then if you remove this, there must be a way to advertise our services on mcm then because it is one of mcm premium perks.

Maybe you misunderstood.
Yes, we are a marketplace forum, which is why we allow users to share links to their services and such.
So no, we're not trying to make shoutbox entirely for being social...
Yes, I want you to be able to advertise your links.
What I'm trying to prevent, is people using shoutbox entirely for advertising.
I don't want it to be used ONLY for advertising.
Does that make sense?
I'm not trying to take away your ability to advertise. Not at all. Not even limit how often you can advertise.

 

[Justis]

This all leads back to my main point. What about all those times Gruss advertises in the shoutbox?

Gruss can advertise... -.-
Everyone can advertise.
I'm not trying to take away people's ability to advertise.
I'm trying to prevent people from using it only to advertise.
Have I made that clear, now? D,x

 

[nara~kavi]

Maybe you misunderstood.
Yes, we are a marketplace forum, which is why we allow users to share links to their services and such.
So no, we're not trying to make shoutbox entirely for being social...
Yes, I want you to be able to advertise your links.
What I'm trying to prevent, is people using shoutbox entirely for advertising.
I don't want it to be used ONLY for advertising.
Does that make sense?
I'm not trying to take away your ability to advertise. Not at all. Not even limit how often you can advertise.

I think the Shoutbox has plenty of rules as it is and I don't think introducing more convoluted rules like "you have to do such and such messages before advertising" would help anything. It'd just end up in people getting warned for a reason that's pretty stupid. There's nothing wrong with people using the Shoutbox of a marketplace website to advertise their products and there's no real issue with people "spamming" their product at whatever godless hour of the morning you took those screenshots in because nobody is there to give a shit. As long as they are following the current rules, let them be you ban-hungry powermaniac!

 

[Skionz]

Gruss can advertise... -.-
Everyone can advertise.
I'm not trying to take away people's ability to advertise.
I'm trying to prevent people from using it only to advertise.
Have I made that clear, now? D,x

If you wanted this to happen you would have to make specific requirements such as: users must have 20 conversation related messages for every 1 advertisement related message.
This would obviously never work.

 

[Justis]

I think the Shoutbox has plenty of rules as it is and I don't think introducing more convoluted rules like "you have to do such and such messages before advertising" would help anything. It'd just end up in people getting warned for a reason that's pretty stupid. There's nothing wrong with people using the Shoutbox of a marketplace website to advertise their products and there's no real issue with people "spamming" their product at whatever godless hour of the morning you took those screenshots in because nobody is there to give a shit. As long as they are following the current rules, let them be you ban-hungry powermaniac!

This is not a new rule.
I just want the community's consent to consider consistant advertising the same thing over and over, and nothing else in between... To be spam.
It's just a way the current rules are looked at.

"let them be you ban-hungry powermaniac!"
XD That wasn't really necessary.
I assure you, the only reason I suggest this is to help make shoutbox a better place.

If you wanted this to happen you would have to make specific requirements such as: users must have 20 conversation related messages for every 1 advertisement related message.
This would obviously never work.

It's very obvious when people only use it for advertising, actually.
If it's not obvious, then there isn't a problem in the first place, and there's no way they'd be punished.
I don't think specifications like that are necessary.

If you're in shoutbox, and you see User1 post an ad, don't see him again until five minutes later, you see him post an ad, you don't see him again until five minutes later he posts the same ad...
It's at that point, that you know they're not using shoutbox for anything more than an ad-placement.

The amount of times you have contradicted yourself is unreal. It's not consistent, if they post it every 5 minutes. As many users said above, it's only in a row if the shoutbox isn't active. So now advertising every 5 minutes is considered spam? And you wish to issue the same punishment as a flooding spam bot?

Also, to add to what nara~kavi said, it seems like you chat mods are just looking for something to do, as there's no drama whatsoever. It also seems like this is only your problem, Doge hasn't complained once.

It's still in a row, if they don't say anything between... Even if other people have been talking.

Doge not complaining also has nothing to do with this suggestion thread.
I'm making this suggestion only because I've heard complaints from other members, and I agree with them.

Honestly, this rarely happens...
Most of the time, members use shoutbox to talk in as well.
It is a very rare case, when someone gets out a timer, and starts (what I consider to be) "spamming" shoutbox once every five minutes.
This isn't something you'd really notice unless you're either in shoutbox all the time, or got lucky when you're on.
Still, it's bothersome when it does happen.

 

[nara~kavi]

This is not a new rule.
I just want the community's consent to consider consistant advertising the same thing over and over, and nothing else in between... To be spam.
It's just a way the current rules are looked at.

"let them be you ban-hungry powermaniac!"
XD That wasn't really necessary.
I assure you, the only reason I suggest this is to help make shoutbox a better place.


It's very obvious when people only use it for advertising, actually.
If it's not obvious, then there isn't a problem in the first place, and there's no way they'd be punished.
I don't think specifications like that are necessary.

If you're in shoutbox, and you see User1 post an ad, don't see him again until five minutes later, you see him post an ad, you don't see him again until five minutes later he posts the same ad...
It's at that point, that you know they're not using shoutbox for anything more than an ad-placement.


It's still in a row, if they don't say anything between... Even if other people have been talking.

Doge not complaining also has nothing to do with this suggestion thread.
I'm making this suggestion only because I've heard complaints from other members, and I agree with them.

Honestly, this rarely happens...
Most of the time, members use shoutbox to talk in as well.
It is a very rare case, when someone gets out a timer, and starts (what I consider to be) "spamming" shoutbox once every five minutes.
This isn't something you'd really notice unless you're either in shoutbox all the time, or got lucky when you're on.
Still, it's bothersome when it does happen.

I sometimes like to just advertise without having to talk. All your little rule would do would be making me have to waste time saying "blah" in the chat or something. It doesn't contribute in any way positively to the Shoutbox.

It seems like you just keep trying to push through stupid changes on this website over and over. You are going a little crazy with it.

 

[Skionz]

It's very obvious when people only use it for advertising, actually.
If it's not obvious, then there isn't a problem in the first place, and there's no way they'd be punished.
I don't think specifications like that are necessary.

If you're in shoutbox, and you see User1 post an ad, don't see him again until five minutes later, you see him post an ad, you don't see him again until five minutes later he posts the same ad...
It's at that point, that you know they're not using shoutbox for anything more than an ad-placement.

Personally, if this was implemented I would prefer a specific rule that defines exactly when we would be punished. What I don't want is moderators being able to decide if we are breaking the rules, or not if that makes any sense. Basically, I want a rule that would say something specific like
"You must post at least one conversation related message in-between advertisements posted at 5 minute frequencies."
Imagine that being a rule. It seems ridiculous.

 

[Miinter]

As long as the players wait those 5 minutes, advertising is fine.
I don't agree with this suggestion.
Also, any rule that would be added, would not make players be more social, or would make them just say some things so they could advertise.

 

[Justis]

I sometimes like to just advertise without having to talk. All your little rule would do would be making me have to waste time saying "blah" in the chat or something. It doesn't contribute in any way positively to the Shoutbox.

It seems like you just keep trying to push through stupid changes on this website over and over. You are going a little crazy with it.

I've seen that, and nara, your advertisements are very far apart. Definitely not at the tick of the bell, when the five minutes are up.
At that point, nobody even remembers or can say what your last message was, so considering that spam would be pointless.

This is more for those people that advertise right at the 5 minute mark, over and over, and say nothing else.
I'd like to be able to limit the spam, without limiting how often you can advertise, if you get what I'm saying.

Look, I get that you disagree with a lot of my suggestions.
But not everyone does, so don't blow them off like you blow me off.
Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us your enemy.

Personally, if this was implemented I would prefer a specific rule that defines exactly when we would be punished. What I don't want is moderators being able to decide if we are breaking the rules, or not if that makes any sense. Basically, I want a rule that would say something specific like
"You must post at least one conversation related message in-between advertisements posted at 5 minute frequencies."
Imagine that being a rule. It seems ridiculous.

Believe it or not, staff members have to use their own good judgement in enforcing almost every rule we have.
There are very very few rules where it is ALWAYS obvious that someone has broken it...
Though, that's not to say it can't be obvious when someone has broken it.
If it was always obvious, we could just write a script/bot/addon that would prevent it for us.

Staff are there to give their judgement.
And also to prevent people from using loopholes.
Whenever exact specifications are given, there is always a way around it.
Not outlining every single case of when a person is in violation of the rules allows staff members to be a little flexible, and allow things that a bot might have picked up, or more importantly, deny things that a bot would not have.

Every time someone posts something, we have to role through the rule book in our head and use our judgement..
"Was this advertising?... Or were they just sharing a link? Was the link misleading? Or was it vague enough... Was the way they said it, inappropriate? What is inappropriate?..." And it goes on and on...
Most of the time, it's obviously not breaking more than one or two rules... But deciding whether or not it's breaking those few, whatever they may be.. It's almost always at the mercy of staff.