Discourage Immaturity in Staff

[Samuel]

I asked about my post removal.

These "burns" may be cool when you're having a laugh, but they're not cool when you're trying to get answers to a question about a moderator action against your content.

I do not appreciate the staff team being "savages" when I want to know how else I should've approached the action I was doing that lead to the content being updated/removed by a moderator.

My suggestion: Discourage immaturity in staff - at least in situations like this, where it's important to clearly explain the rules and the ways to approach situations differently.

I finally got my answer from Coco here, however I was not happy that I had to continue to go on in chat about it.

There are multiple staff that are "savages". This is not aimed at Coco, this is just the most recent case I found.

 

[Mick]

Samuel, I absolutely agree that there's a time and a place for being serious but expecting the moderation team to stay 100% serious 100% of the time is a bit extreme I think. Staff are humans too and shoutbox is a place for them to interact with the community. There is a specific rule that you broke here by the way, you're not supposed to contact staff about staff-related things in the shoutbox.

3.2 Do not attempt to contact staff members for staff related things via the chatbox. Use support request instead.

 

[Samuel]

Samuel, I absolutely agree that there's a time and a place for being serious but expecting the moderation team to stay 100% serious 100% of the time is a bit extreme I think. Staff are humans too and shoutbox is a place for them to interact with the community. There is a specific rule that you broke here by the way, you're not supposed to contact staff about staff-related things in the shoutbox.

I said "PM me" to take it out of shoutbox.

Coco then went on further in shoutbox rather than replying to my PM because it was early.

 

[Mick]

I said "PM me" to take it out of shoutbox.

Coco then went on further in shoutbox rather than replying to my PM because it was early.

Righto, but in the future just make a support request directly. Staff are expected to stay serious when performing moderation duties but when they're socialising with the community then I really see no reason for everyone (including myself for that matter) to be serious when talking to people -- we should be able to be a part of conversations too!

 

[Samuel]

Righto, but in the future just make a support request directly. Staff are expected to stay serious when performing moderation duties but when they're socialising with the community then I really see no reason for everyone (including myself for that matter) to be serious when talking to people -- we should be able to be a part of conversations too!

My suggestion was directly pointed at moderation duties.

Even if someone reaches out to a moderator in an incorrect way, they should be mature and go to the better method of contacting without the savage-like behaviour.

I offered a way of discussing it between us which would've fit into that rule you originally quoted, however Coco in this case decided it would be a better idea, since it's 2AM their time, to just discuss it a bit more in chat. I wasn't even told by you or Coco in chat to stop talking about that in chat, and I mentioned both of you in chat.

Personally, I don't remember every single rule that is on MCM. Sometimes I forget the rules, but I would expect the people who are enforcing them to tell me at that time that there is a rule that I am not obeying.

 

[Ivain]

coco literally declined to talk lol

Staff are NOT obliged to talk to you if you do not use a support request. I would like to make that very clear.
PM's are NOT an official way to contact staff, and if they decide to ignore you, that's their choice and their right.
Technically, they're not even obliged to answer support requests 100% of the time, as long as they get handled, but they do them ASAP anyway because if they didn't the site would crash and burn.[DOUBLEPOST=1481989414][/DOUBLEPOST]

I said "PM me" to take it out of shoutbox.

Coco then went on further in shoutbox rather than replying to my PM because it was early.

As I said, coco has every right to continue doing other things instead of instantly replying to what you say. Staff are not hired to be live support, they're paid to handle reports, support requests, keep order in chat and in the threads of the forum. This does not include answering PM's instantly. Staff members have a life too, and sometimes they don't want to deal with your shit right that minute. If you can't accept that, that's too bad.

I would even suggest that contacting staff through PM for staff-related issues be officially banned, except for dire emergencies (someone posting a DOX of you, someone compromising your account at that moment, and other stuff that can do enormous damage inside of an hour).
I can tell you for sure that people PM'ing me had a decent chance of either being ignored, or told to simply make a support request.

 

[Samuel]

Staff are NOT obliged to talk to you if you do not use a support request. I would like to make that very clear.
PM's are NOT an official way to contact staff, and if they decide to ignore you, that's their choice and their right.
Technically, they're not even obliged to answer support requests 100% of the time, as long as they get handled, but they do them ASAP anyway because if they didn't the site would crash and burn.[DOUBLEPOST=1481989414][/DOUBLEPOST]
As I said, coco has every right to continue doing other things instead of instantly replying to what you say. Staff are not hired to be live support, they're paid to handle reports, support requests, keep order in chat and in the threads of the forum. This does not include answering PM's instantly. Staff members have a life too, and sometimes they don't want to deal with your shit right that minute. If you can't accept that, that's too bad.

I would even suggest that contacting staff through PM for staff-related issues be officially banned, except for dire emergencies (someone posting a DOX of you, someone compromising your account at that moment, and other stuff that can do enormous damage inside of an hour).
I can tell you for sure that people PM'ing me had a decent chance of either being ignored, or told to simply make a support request.

I never said they were obliged to talk to me. I never said PMing was the official way, but since I knew who it was, I thought we could both be mature enough to discuss it privately between us (I've even been told by a moderator in the past to PM them about a punishment they gave me).

I wasn't asking for live support, hell, later on I even asked something along the lines of "Assuming you don't die, will I receive a reply?" as in, I am willing to wait, but are you going to consider replying? Coco then replied with the answer to my PM in chat. Their choice.

I never asked them to requested they reply immediately (not sure where exactly you pulled that one from). I considered they have a life, and I don't expect my "shit" dealt with right that minute. I asked in chat if my PM would even be answered (again, assuming they didn't die or whatever). I can accept that, and I can also accept that your arrogant attitude here is absolutely appalling.

You're putting words into my mouth, going off-topic, and then giving me attitude for it. It's good that you decided to resign. I wouldn't want any of that from a moderator. This thread is about making staff behave maturely, rather than being "savage" when someone wants an answer to a question (and isn't demanding it be IMMEDIATE!!!!).

As for your last part, well, that's part of being a staff member. If you're not ready for it, don't be a staff member. In most places, anyone who gives out a punishment should be contactable and ready for questioning on it. That's how people learn. By being told what is wrong, what is right, and how to improve. Not by being told "ask everyone else 'cause idfk/idfc???"

If you, as a moderator, ignored people - you weren't very good. You were hiding content that potentially broke the rules. I'm not saying you did ignore people here, however the way you phrased it made it seem to me like it was possible that you ignored people while you were a moderator.

 

[Ivain]

I never said they were obliged to talk to me. I never said PMing was the official way, but since I knew who it was, I thought we could both be mature enough to discuss it privately between us (I've even been told by a moderator in the past to PM them about a punishment they gave me).

I wasn't asking for live support, hell, later on I even asked something along the lines of "Assuming you don't die, will I receive a reply?" as in, I am willing to wait, but are you going to consider replying? Coco then replied with the answer to my PM in chat. Their choice.

I never asked them to requested they reply immediately (not sure where exactly you pulled that one from). I considered they have a life, and I don't expect my "shit" dealt with right that minute. I asked in chat if my PM would even be answered (again, assuming they didn't die or whatever). I can accept that, and I can also accept that your arrogant attitude here is absolutely appalling.

You're putting words into my mouth, going off-topic, and then giving me attitude for it. It's good that you decided to resign. I wouldn't want any of that from a moderator. This thread is about making staff behave maturely, rather than being "savage" when someone wants an answer to a question (and isn't demanding it be IMMEDIATE!!!!).

As for your last part, well, that's part of being a staff member. If you're not ready for it, don't be a staff member. In most places, anyone who gives out a punishment should be contactable and ready for questioning on it. That's how people learn. By being told what is wrong, what is right, and how to improve. Not by being told "ask everyone else 'cause idfk/idfc???"

If you, as a moderator, ignored people - you weren't very good. You were hiding content that potentially broke the rules. I'm not saying you did ignore people here, however the way you phrased it made it seem to me like it was possible that you ignored people while you were a moderator.

I don't see where I went off-topic, it was all right on point. As for putting words into your mouth, the entirety of what you showed was less than a minute of SB talk, and her seeing "I saw". I have not seen any proof of her saying your PM would never be replied to. What you showed only carried a light implication.

If this was something that had happened in the space of more than a day, you would probably have had a point, though a support request should still have been made. From what I gather, this happened in the space of less than an hour, and you ASSUMED that what she said meant that she would not reply.
Lastly, I do not see how "I saw" is a burn, unless you're as flammable as Hydrogen gas. It can be interpreted as something sassy, or it could be a literal statement of fact.
Now, since I missed it by a minute, I cannot know all the facts. If you were to SHOW the ENTIRE relevant communication, I might change my view. Emphasis on might.


Lastly, if you had ever given more than 2 shits, you would have noticed that since I resigned, my behaviour changed by quite a lot. I am no longer required to represent a site, no longer required to help people I don't really want to help, and no longer required to be the epitome of professionalism. As a result, I no longer censor myself and say what I think straight out. You can accept that or choke on it, and don't worry, I won't miss you.

 

[Samuel]

Samuel you're complaining about staff immaturity, you yourself are very immature.

That's nothing to do with a moderator action.

 

[omarhachach]

Samuel you're complaining about staff immaturity, you yourself are very immature.

Normal members should be able to be immature, staff members should be able to be professional when needed.
This is a one-off case of Coco, but the overall suggestion is good.
Staff members should know when and when not to be professional, it should be the very first skill in a staff member.

 

[Samuel]

There's only so much you can fit into a title. Try reading my post.

 

[omarhachach]

Isn't this kinda like telling a scammer telling a scammer to stop scamming?

Ironic at the very least.

No, if staff members and regular members should be expected to do the same, we should be able to do what staff members can.
This is in no way ironic, or like telling a scammer to stop scamming.

 

[Ivain]

so, i just got my hands on this: https://i.gyazo.com/b09f419bb8369fb11c1832c94778b668.png

Here it shows our buddy samuel harassing coco to reply to his PM. asking every minute is DEFINITELY contacting staff through SB, so I believe that should be dealt with.

It also does not show anywhere where she says that she will not reply to his PM at all.
The entire conversation shown happens inside of 15 minutes.
This strongly supports my earlier speculation of what happened.[DOUBLEPOST=1481991103][/DOUBLEPOST]Nor does it show any behavior I would class as unprofessional on Coco's side.

The only way he could have interpreted that she would not reply at all is by her "no thanks", which is justified after being asked 3 times in the space of a few minutes through shoutbox, which is against the rules.

 

[Samuel]

I don't see where I went off-topic, it was all right on point. As for putting words into your mouth, the entirety of what you showed was less than a minute of SB talk, and her seeing "I saw". I have not seen any proof of her saying your PM would never be replied to. What you showed only carried a light implication.

If this was something that had happened in the space of more than a day, you would probably have had a point, though a support request should still have been made. From what I gather, this happened in the space of less than an hour, and you ASSUMED that what she said meant that she would not reply.
Lastly, I do not see how "I saw" is a burn, unless you're as flammable as Hydrogen gas. It can be interpreted as something sassy, or it could be a literal statement of fact.
Now, since I missed it by a minute, I cannot know all the facts. If you were to SHOW the ENTIRE relevant communication, I might change my view. Emphasis on might.


Lastly, if you had ever given more than 2 shits, you would have noticed that since I resigned, my behaviour changed by quite a lot. I am no longer required to represent a site, no longer required to help people I don't really want to help, and no longer required to be the epitome of professionalism. As a result, I no longer censor myself and say what I think straight out. You can accept that or choke on it, and don't worry, I won't miss you.

You went off-topic when you started mentioning things I hadn't even said.

I did not assume anything, actually. I asked if they would consider replying. Their attitude made me feel like it could potentially go ignored, since they weren't willing to PM me about it, and said "I can see that." when I told them I messaged them.

The "burn" doesn't exist. It's the savage-like behaviour here:

...that I am not happy about.

Try to be professional here, or get away from my suggestion. My intention here is to bring an issue to the team's attention, and get everyone else's opinions on it in such a way that everyone respects other people's opinions. You put words into my mouth, went off-topic (see the first sentence of this reply), and then decided to give me attitude. Grow up.

 

[omarhachach]

so, i just got my hands on this: https://i.gyazo.com/b09f419bb8369fb11c1832c94778b668.png

Here it shows our buddy samuel harassing coco to reply to his PM. asking every minute is DEFINITELY contacting staff through SB, so I believe that should be dealt with.

It also does not show anywhere where she says that she will not reply to his PM at all.
The entire conversation shown happens inside of 15 minutes.
This strongly supports my earlier speculation of what happened.

Okay, even if Samuel was a complete dick, this suggestion is good.
What he is suggestion was motivated by what happened, but isn't linked to it. This could very well be suggested by some random dude, who thinks professionalism in staff is good. (Like me).

Stop taking this as an attack on Coco, and reply to the suggestion, not to the poster. If you want to argue with Samuel take it to a PM.

 

[Ivain]

Okay, even if Samuel was a complete dick, this suggestion is good.
What he is suggestion was motivated by what happened, but isn't linked to it. This could very well be suggested by some random dude, who thinks professionalism in staff is good. (Like me).

Stop taking this as an attack on Coco, and reply to the suggestion, not to the poster. If you want to argue with Samuel take it to a PM.

The thing is, this says almost nothing OTHER than the case of Coco. Nor would I class this as unprofessional except for the 'lul'. I have already talked with coco and she made clear that at no point was it intended to be 'savage' in any way, and (my input) that you chose to interpret it so is your own choice. I quote her here:

"I didn't consider anything I said as "savagery" anyway.
It was meant to be in a laid back sorta, I'm done with the day tone? I guess perception of texts vary from individual to individual"

Now, back to the main suggestion. Since I've left the staff team, I've hardly seen anything that can be classed as truly unprofessional.
And as mick has already said, it is unrealistic to expect people to be professional all the time. Staff here are not literal professionals. They don't get paid a salary or a wage to run this site. They're site users who get paid a little bit for helping keeping the site running. Effectively volunteers.

And, as Omar has requested, my view on the suggestion without any situational case included: If you wish to force staff members to be 100% professional 100% of their time on this site, you will find that very few people still wish to be staff.

I originally joined the team because I enjoyed being able to help people with their problems, while being a user myself. If it had been expected of me to behave as suggested here, I would have turned it down. I think almost anyone on the team still would have done so, except maybe M6.

What is being suggested is little different from working in a Call-center. if you're expected to be fully polite to anyone no matter what they do or say to you, there is no joy in the job. You'll be screaming mad before the week is out, and only sticking around for the money. Which, in this case, is less than impressive.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, the sort of behaviour some members on this site have shown (not seen any of them in this thread yet, fortunately) is easily comparable to the sort of thing you deal with if you work at a callcenter.

There's a bunch of normal people, some incredibly stupid but otherwise polite people, some oblivious kids, some that just keep calling and calling, some total assholes, and some who make you want to massacre all of humanity.