Donald Trump - We're all screwed D:

[Ivain]

And blaming Bush now again are we? Please do not tell me you are one of those people because, if so, there is no point in arguing with you. No offense, just saying.

It does not matter what the other presidents do or have done, it is the job of the president to do what is right. Not what he is allowed, but the most he can to help the people in the US. Obama has split the country more than any other president.[DOUBLEPOST=1449683327,1449683297][/DOUBLEPOST]
Someone inspect elemented a news report that said he is shutting down the internet with the help of Bill Gates.

I'm not blaming just bush. Every bloody US president since world war 2 has made mistakes and blamed people unjustly for one thing or another, whether Democrat or Republican. Probably a bunch of them before that time as well, but history isn't as elaborate on those (at least not my knowledge of it).
For that matter, I thought my own country's politicians were a collection of the biggest derps in the history of mankind. Then I started gaining bits of knowledge from other countries I thought were better options, and realized I'm not situated too badly here.
I have yet to find a ruler of any country in the last century or so that has satisfied a significant amount of both their own citizens or the citizens of the rest of the orld.[DOUBLEPOST=1449683844][/DOUBLEPOST]

LMAO WHAT? I would be kissing his ass!

I mean, I have no idea what sort of things are involved in those type of financial deals, so I'll reserve judgement.

 

[Satelliting]

I have yet to find a ruler of any country in the last century or so that has satisfied a significant amount of both their own citizens or the citizens of the rest of the orld.

Because it is no longer amount the citizens, it is about staying on top the political poll. Fair and equal throughout the entire country is how freedom is suppose to work within the US. However, none seem to wish to do that.

You know what guys, lets just blame the media xD

 

[Ivain]

Because it is no longer amount the citizens, it is about staying on top the political poll. Fair and equal throughout the entire country is how freedom is suppose to work within the US. However, none seem to wish to do that.

You know what guys, lets just blame the media xD

yeah, that's the most effective tactic in most cases XD

 

[Satelliting]

yeah, that's the most effective tactic in most cases XD

Glad we can both agree on that at least

 

[Renovix]

Short and sweet;

Fuck Donald Trump.

 

[chucK_]

The thing that gets me the most is all the Europeans who look up articles about the U.S. on uncredible sources and think we are all a bunch of fatass crazys who shoot each other. For all I see the U.S. has had one civil war over economical issues in 300 years while European countries have fought over freaking riverbanks for hundreds and hundreds of years and only half stopped once WWII happened and the U.S. paid billions in aid to help the war torn countries. Now Greece is bankrupt, England is on the edge of a financial crisis due to extreme pressure for Scottish independence, and some if the majority parties in Europe are Islam hate backed ones. It's honestly sad this generation of kids who have a tool such as the internet and poorly utilize it and allow their opinions to be warped and formed by illegitimate news sources, biases, and radicals. The idea of some socio-communist world peace is simply ridiculous and to think you can stop all evil is ignorance. Ignorance is not bliss, so shut up and go do some real research.

 

[Ivain]

The thing that gets me the most is all the Europeans who look up articles about the U.S. on uncredible sources and think we are all a bunch of fatass crazys who shoot each other. For all I see the U.S. has had one civil war over economical issues in 300 years while European countries have fought over freaking riverbanks for hundreds and hundreds of years and only half stopped once WWII happened and the U.S. paid billions in aid to help the war torn countries. Now Greece is bankrupt, England is on the edge of a financial crisis due to extreme pressure for Scottish independence, and some if the majority parties in Europe are Islam hate backed ones. It's honestly sad this generation of kids who have a tool such as the internet and poorly utilize it and allow their opinions to be warped and formed by illegitimate news sources, biases, and radicals. The idea of some socio-communist world peace is simply ridiculous and to think you can stop all evil is ignorance. Ignorance is not bliss, so shut up and go do some real research.

nice generalization you got there. I'm sure you've researched the statistics from a large amount of very reliable sources

 

[chucK_]

nice generalization you got there. I'm sure you've researched the statistics from a large amount of very reliable sources

What stats do I need when I see it first hand.

 

[Ivain]

What stats do I need when I see it first hand.

I'll quote you the failed generalisations, since you obviously can't see them.

The thing that gets me the most is all the Europeans who look up articles about the U.S. on uncredible sources and think we are all a bunch of fatass crazys who shoot each other.

As much of a misconceived stereotype of europeans as you claim "all" europeans have of the US.
Yes, there are people in the US crazy with guns. Yes, there are people in europe that think every US citizen is one of those, while in fact its a near-negligible minority in both cases (or it would be if it wasn't for the relatively high amount of citizen-based lethal shootings. No, I'm not gonna quote statistics on that, since I see it right in front of my face. Aka every last one of my newsfeeds).

For all I see the U.S. has had one civil war over economical issues in 300 years while European countries have fought over freaking riverbanks for hundreds and hundreds of years and only half stopped once WWII happened and the U.S. paid billions in aid to help the war torn countries.

The US has only existed a few centuries as a political nation. Before that, during the settling, you had an extensive war with the natives to conquer their land from them.
The EU has only existed as a political 'unity' since the 90's. Before that were were a collection of nations that all ruled independently. Of course there is a likelihood of wars then. And while the US may not have had many wars on their own territory, they've taken part in plenty of wars outside it (I'm not even talking about the world wars here, I'm talking about Vietnam and Iraq).
The US paid billions to help us 75 years ago, indeed. I'm not gonna look up the exact number.
The Us also invests billions PER YEAR into its military. So it might not have been quite as devastating an amount as you want us to believe.
Of course European countries also invest several billions per year into their military, though in some cases that might be hundreds of millions.

Now Greece is bankrupt, England is on the edge of a financial crisis due to extreme pressure for Scottish independence, and some if the majority parties in Europe are Islam hate backed ones. \

Greece is indeed bankrupt. This has more to do with the attitude of its politicians than with any wars though. The EU has pumped billions of dollars there collectively, without improving the situation. People in europe after the second world war were feisty and willing to build back up. People in greece appear to have given up.
Also how would the scottish independence movement, which takes place in the UK, a country that is not even a full part of the EU, have such a devastating effect on the collective economy of more than 2 dozen countries?

It's honestly sad this generation of kids who have a tool such as the internet and poorly utilize it and allow their opinions to be warped and formed by illegitimate news sources, biases, and radicals. The idea of some socio-communist world peace is simply ridiculous and to think you can stop all evil is ignorance. Ignorance is not bliss, so shut up and go do some real research.

Such as yourself, you mean? you presume to know as much about europe as you say I (and others) presume to know about the US.
"socio-communist world peace".
So its all about anti-commies again now? I'm sorry, but your entire post here has full-filled my entire stereotype of a Republican supporter. I was trying to stay unbiased on that but this is just plain amusing, as well as ridiculous.

Of course world peace is not going to happen anytime soon. Its probably going to take centuries more, though we may make some progress before the next millenium (possibly by expanding across space, or by having nearly killed the planet with a nuclear war, or by global warming becoming impossible to deny, or some other situation none of us could have foreseen).

That does not mean we should start actively slaughtering each other. Simply because perfection is a logical impossibility does not mean you should stop striving for it. Not that any politicians of any country seem to actually be doing so, but that's another matter.


All in all, you've proven yourself to be quite the hypocrite.

Oh, and before you start pointing out my lack of knowledge on politics and all that, realize that I LIVE in the EU. You live over in the US. I've (grudgingly) accepted that you have more detailed knowledge of US politics (note that having more knowledge does not automatically make your opinions 'correct' in any way, nor does mine it). Now accept that I have more detailed knowledge of EU politics and history.

 

[Tofty]

say your goodbyes now cause the internet is closing and we won't be able to talk to each other ever again

#DonaldTrump2016
jk

 

[chucK_]

As much of a misconceived stereotype of europeans as you claim "all" europeans have of the US.
Yes, there are people in the US crazy with guns. Yes, there are people in europe that think every US citizen is one of those, while in fact its a near-negligible minority in both cases (or it would be if it wasn't for the relatively high amount of citizen-based lethal shootings. No, I'm not gonna quote statistics on that, since I see it right in front of my face. Aka every last one of my newsfeeds).

Hmm, ever looked at the shootings per capita rate comparing the US and European Countries?
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Frequency-of-Mass-Public-Shootings.png
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...Rate-from-Mass-Public-Shootings-Europe-US.png
There you go. Looks like the U.S. just has more people! Wow!

The US has only existed a few centuries as a political nation. Before that, during the settling, you had an extensive war with the natives to conquer their land from them.
The EU has only existed as a political 'unity' since the 90's. Before that were were a collection of nations that all ruled independently. Of course there is a likelihood of wars then. And while the US may not have had many wars on their own territory, they've taken part in plenty of wars outside it (I'm not even talking about the world wars here, I'm talking about Vietnam and Iraq).
The US paid billions to help us 75 years ago, indeed. I'm not gonna look up the exact number.
The Us also invests billions PER YEAR into its military. So it might not have been quite as devastating an amount as you want us to believe.
Of course European countries also invest several billions per year into their military, though in some cases that might be hundreds of millions.

(If you refer to during the "settling" of what is now the U.S., that was also mostly European colonization until 1776! Wow!)
Hmm, so the predominate world superpower acting as a police nation? Right. Right. Sounds terrible to me.

Greece is indeed bankrupt. This has more to do with the attitude of its politicians than with any wars though. The EU has pumped billions of dollars there collectively, without improving the situation. People in europe after the second world war were feisty and willing to build back up. People in greece appear to have given up.
Also how would the scottish independence movement, which takes place in the UK, a country that is not even a full part of the EU, have such a devastating effect on the collective economy of more than 2 dozen countries?

USD - http://prntscr.com/9c9g68 Up!
Euro - http://prntscr.com/9c9gc5 Down!
GBP - http://prntscr.com/9c9h22 Down!

EU Poverty Rate (2013) - Around 29%
US Poverty Rate (2014) - Around 15%

Greece Post-WWII - Huge economic boom until military coup's and dictators
Germany Post-WWII - Allied Nations controlled it, helped form it, etc.


Throw out the fact that England uses the Pound, Scottish independence it would have substantial effects on the EU if the price of the pound dropped out.

Such as yourself, you mean? you presume to know as much about europe as you say I (and others) presume to know about the US.
"socio-communist world peace".
So its all about anti-commies again now? I'm sorry, but your entire post here has full-filled my entire stereotype of a Republican supporter. I was trying to stay unbiased on that but this is just plain amusing, as well as ridiculous.

Of course world peace is not going to happen anytime soon. Its probably going to take centuries more, though we may make some progress before the next millenium (possibly by expanding across space, or by having nearly killed the planet with a nuclear war, or by global warming becoming impossible to deny, or some other situation none of us could have foreseen).

That does not mean we should start actively slaughtering each other. Simply because perfection is a logical impossibility does not mean you should stop striving for it. Not that any politicians of any country seem to actually be doing so, but that's another matter.

World peace isn't real my friend. It's an imaginative utopia that is rendered useless when compared to ideas of hegemony and domination in human instinct. It's great in theory, but it would never work in practice.

All in all, you've proven yourself to be quite the hypocrite.

Oh, and before you start pointing out my lack of knowledge on politics and all that, realize that I LIVE in the EU. You live over in the US. I've (grudgingly) accepted that you have more detailed knowledge of US politics (note that having more knowledge does not automatically make your opinions 'correct' in any way, nor does mine it). Now accept that I have more detailed knowledge of EU politics and history.

It seems to be that I have shown a bit more knowledge in European politics and history above. I have enough college PoliSci courses that I could probably minor in it, and I'm 17. I've studied in European politics and I understand it plenty fine. My "rash generalizations" might be better fitted to use the terms of "most" or "a majority," but I was in the middle of geology class trying to argue with you. It's not that easy to write lecture notes while arguing stupidity on a mobile phone.

 

[Ivain]

First, what slightly concerns me is the fact that this "crimesearch.org" does not appear to be a functional website. None of the parts of the URL show up anything other than empty pages, "server not found" and 404 errors. Nor does it show up as an existing website on a quick search. Nor do the tables look like anything but that which anyone could put together at will.

Doing some research myself, I came across a website that seemed a bit more reliable.
Since 'shootings' are a vague term, I instead decided to compare the amount of homocides. (I omitted the Russian Federation, since that is obviously a large source of crime. Since Europe can be said to be a separate body from the Russian Federation, this omission is valid.
Using these 2 pages:
US
EU

The number for the EU total homocide rates was 5921
The number for the US total homocide rates is 12253

The total population of the US at the end of 2013 was around 317 million according to this website: http://www.census.gov/popclock/

The total population of the European union was 505 million according to this website: http://www.statista.com/statistics/253372/total-population-of-the-european-union-eu/
Assuming that Russia is counted in that, we subtract the Russian population, which according to this website: http://www.prb.org/publications/dat...heet/world-map.aspx#map/world/population/2013
was 295 million. That would mean a population of roughly 200 million for the rest of europe.

Dividing 5921 by 200 makes 29.6 homocides per million of population in the year 2013.
Dividing 12253 by 317 makes 38.6 homocides per million of population in the year 2013. That's a third more, an amount significant even if you allow for a deviation of 10% due to my calculations.


On the value of the euro, yes the value has been dropping since 2008. Aka after the major economic crash. Which had nothing to do with either the scottish independence OR greece, though greece did feel its effects most strongly.
Since your facts are correct, I can hardly refute them. Your analysis, however, may be off.
I cannot speculate on the dependancy of the Euro on the pound sterling, so it may be true that the effect of scottish independence will affect the euro.
It will also, however, affect the US dollar, though not as strongly.
Anyway, I will take back my original point on the US debt per capita and stuff, since my research has made me encounter evidence that weakens or straight up counters that statement (such as many european countries having more debt per capita than the US).

As for germany having been governed/boosted by the allied nations after WWII, true enough. that's part of my history as well. I believe you're referring to the Marshall plan.
However, the same alliance and the same Marshall plan also strongly boosted the Netherlands, France and Belgium, yet none of the 3 has become an economic power to be reckoned with.
Germany recovered partially because of the Marshall plan, but also because of the economic reforms that took place since, and the willingness of its people to work for a low wage until the economy recovered. Remains of that mentality continue to ensure that germany is the main economic center of europe, having taken over the economic strength of the UK back in the 50's.

As on world peace not being real, I thought I got that point across. Just because world peace isn't real and won't be for dozens if not hundreds of generations to come isn't reason to start more wars. We've already started a war on the IS since they've obviously been provoking us and have proven to be a serious enough threat to take action. The syrian refugees are fleeing from the war that was already taking place before europe got directly involved, and will continue to flee now that we have.

Regarding the other points, yes you have proven me wrong somewhat. You've proven that you're not actually stupid, rather quite intelligent, which already removes you from my stereotypical view of Republicans. Its just that both of us have a tendency to react strongly to those that disagree with us, involving statements that give the wrong impression. I'm referring to your statement on "kids using unreliable sources" and was a generalization of "europeans". As a final point I'd like to say there are plenty of US citizens that don't know the basic states and history of the EU. As there are plenty of EU citizens that couldn't tell New York State from Wyoming and might confuse parts of Florida with California. This isn't because they're stupid, but because standard education pays no attention to what lies across the Atlantic. A problem that takes place in both regions.


Finally, I feel we've deviated far enough from the original topic. I've failed to disprove some of your points and you've failed to disprove some of mine. Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong, and neither is an idiot or a hypocrite or anything similar.
I guess my relative lack of knowledge on general matters of history and economy compared to yours has to do with me choosing a Beta path after age 14, meaning I've been studying the sciences more intensely than the Humanities.

so to close this off, I doubt we'll ever agree on anything. but lets agree on a ceasefire for now.
Feel free to disprove any points I've made further. If you leave out the jabs as I did in this last post, I won't feel the need to react. This will be my final post, at least for tonight and hopefully for this thread.

 

[chucK_]

First, what slightly concerns me is the fact that this "crimesearch.org" does not appear to be a functional website. None of the parts of the URL show up anything other than empty pages, "server not found" and 404 errors. Nor does it show up as an existing website on a quick search. Nor do the tables look like anything but that which anyone could put together at will.

Doing some research myself, I came across a website that seemed a bit more reliable.
Since 'shootings' are a vague term, I instead decided to compare the amount of homocides. (I omitted the Russian Federation, since that is obviously a large source of crime. Since Europe can be said to be a separate body from the Russian Federation, this omission is valid.
Using these 2 pages:
US
EU

The number for the EU total homocide rates was 5921
The number for the US total homocide rates is 12253

The total population of the US at the end of 2013 was around 317 million according to this website: http://www.census.gov/popclock/

The total population of the European union was 505 million according to this website: http://www.statista.com/statistics/253372/total-population-of-the-european-union-eu/
Assuming that Russia is counted in that, we subtract the Russian population, which according to this website: http://www.prb.org/publications/dat...heet/world-map.aspx#map/world/population/2013
was 295 million. That would mean a population of roughly 200 million for the rest of europe.

Dividing 5921 by 200 makes 29.6 homocides per million of population in the year 2013.
Dividing 12253 by 317 makes 38.6 homocides per million of population in the year 2013. That's a third more, an amount significant even if you allow for a deviation of 10% due to my calculations.


On the value of the euro, yes the value has been dropping since 2008. Aka after the major economic crash. Which had nothing to do with either the scottish independence OR greece, though greece did feel its effects most strongly.
Since your facts are correct, I can hardly refute them. Your analysis, however, may be off.
I cannot speculate on the dependancy of the Euro on the pound sterling, so it may be true that the effect of scottish independence will affect the euro.
It will also, however, affect the US dollar, though not as strongly.
Anyway, I will take back my original point on the US debt per capita and stuff, since my research has made me encounter evidence that weakens or straight up counters that statement (such as many european countries having more debt per capita than the US).

As for germany having been governed/boosted by the allied nations after WWII, true enough. that's part of my history as well. I believe you're referring to the Marshall plan.
However, the same alliance and the same Marshall plan also strongly boosted the Netherlands, France and Belgium, yet none of the 3 has become an economic power to be reckoned with.
Germany recovered partially because of the Marshall plan, but also because of the economic reforms that took place since, and the willingness of its people to work for a low wage until the economy recovered. Remains of that mentality continue to ensure that germany is the main economic center of europe, having taken over the economic strength of the UK back in the 50's.

As on world peace not being real, I thought I got that point across. Just because world peace isn't real and won't be for dozens if not hundreds of generations to come isn't reason to start more wars. We've already started a war on the IS since they've obviously been provoking us and have proven to be a serious enough threat to take action. The syrian refugees are fleeing from the war that was already taking place before europe got directly involved, and will continue to flee now that we have.

Regarding the other points, yes you have proven me wrong somewhat. You've proven that you're not actually stupid, rather quite intelligent, which already removes you from my stereotypical view of Republicans. Its just that both of us have a tendency to react strongly to those that disagree with us, involving statements that give the wrong impression. I'm referring to your statement on "kids using unreliable sources" and was a generalization of "europeans". As a final point I'd like to say there are plenty of US citizens that don't know the basic states and history of the EU. As there are plenty of EU citizens that couldn't tell New York State from Wyoming and might confuse parts of Florida with California. This isn't because they're stupid, but because standard education pays no attention to what lies across the Atlantic. A problem that takes place in both regions.


Finally, I feel we've deviated far enough from the original topic. I've failed to disprove some of your points and you've failed to disprove some of mine. Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong, and neither is an idiot or a hypocrite or anything similar.
I guess my relative lack of knowledge on general matters of history and economy compared to yours has to do with me choosing a Beta path after age 14, meaning I've been studying the sciences more intensely than the Humanities.

so to close this off, I doubt we'll ever agree on anything. but lets agree on a ceasefire for now.
Feel free to disprove any points I've made further. If you leave out the jabs as I did in this last post, I won't feel the need to react. This will be my final post, at least for tonight and hopefully for this thread.

http://crimeresearch.org/ friend.

I'm not even going to waste my time on someone who can't read a URL.

 

[Ivain]

http://crimeresearch.org/ friend.

I'm not even going to waste my time on someone who can't read a URL.

oh I'm so sorry if I'm slightly dyslectic. Figures are still different.

 

[thebaum64]

LOL a VPN needs to connect to Internet still. If your internet is disabled, you can't magically connect to a VPN.

They have portable routers/3G either way, plus, internet is world wide, he cant shut it off

 

[TonyD]

Vote for Trump to make America where it needs to be.

 

[Gruss]

Short and sweet;

Fuck Donald Trump.

Please don't say this unless you have a valid reason to do so..