Don't ban investing & loaning from the site entirely

[Wezel]

Recently the suggestion for removing the Investments & Loans section was pushed through and accepted. Im going to write a nice little suggestion on why I dont think this should happen.

Removing the whole section would also most likely mean that loaning out money and investing in projects/servers on here would be banned, and not allowed. Most projects/servers wouldn't be able to start up at all without financial help from others that are interested in doing so, and banning loaning and investing on this site would result in less projects and servers on this site, which would also mean less users.

Being the #1 mc marketplace I think this is a bad move, and server owners and others trying to start up projects would be having to look for other sites and places to get this = loss of users/members. As a business point of view for this site it would mean loss of money.

I scan the investments & loans and recruitment & staff section multiple times daily, and I see MANY people in need of funding to start up their projects.

Bottom line is this would result in loss of users on this site since they would have to go elsewhere to look for these kind of services.

 

[Justis]

Here’s the original thread, for reference: https://www.mc-market.org/threads/530483/
I would advise anyone reading this to read the responses for context.

This argument would have been better made in the original thread instead of making a second thread for discussing the same topic, and after it has just been accepted with 87 agrees and 10 disagrees, no less. The community’s opinion has already been heard, there’s no need to go through the voting process all over again.

However, regarding your concerns, our users needing financial support in order to start up their projects will still be able to look for partners in our recruitment forum. This is how it should have always been, so that our users are investing into what has become their own project- they are getting something out of it immediately, rather than a simple promise of repayment and interest later, "if" things turn out well. However, genuinely, if a person has neither the financial resources nor the ability to obtain a loan from legitimate loaning services, such as banks or PayPal, then what faith can we have that they can be relied upon to pay back the users they’re accepting money from for their own personal ventures?

From a business standpoint, not enabling irresponsible choices by our users for themselves and the people they’re accepting money from is a great way to keep them from getting themselves banned, going broke, and causing losses to others. Considering the fact that our users have alternatives, and they are all safer alternatives, I’m not expecting the loss to our community that you’re describing.

 

[Wezel]

Here’s the original thread, for reference: https://www.mc-market.org/threads/530483/
I would advise anyone reading this to read the responses for context.

This argument would have been better made in the original thread instead of making a second thread for discussing the same topic, and after it has just been accepted with 87 agrees and 10 disagrees, no less. The community’s opinion has already been heard, there’s no need to go through the voting process all over again.

However, regarding your concerns, our users needing financial support in order to start up their projects will still be able to look for partners in our recruitment forum. This is how it should have always been, so that our users are investing into what has become their own project- they are getting something out of it immediately, rather than a simple promise of repayment and interest later, "if" things turn out well. However, genuinely, if a person has neither the financial resources nor the ability to obtain a loan from legitimate loaning services, such as banks or PayPal, then what faith can we have that they can be relied upon to pay back the users they’re accepting money from for their own personal ventures?

From a business standpoint, not enabling irresponsible choices by our users for themselves and the people they’re accepting money from is a great way to keep them from getting themselves banned, going broke, and causing losses to others. Considering the fact that our users have alternatives, and they are all safer alternatives, I’m not expecting the loss to our community that you’re describing.

Thanks for the reply. I understand that the section is lost, and it wasn't mainly what this suggestion was about. It was mostly about investments and loans still being a thing on this site.

Your reply was informative and what im getting from it is that funding and asking for funding will still be a part of this site, but it will be primarly in the Recruitment & Staff section?

I just got confused when staff in chatbox said that when the Investments & Loans section was removed, removing the whole concept of investing and loaning on the site would naturally follow.

 

[Justis]

Thanks for the reply. I understand that the section is lost, and it wasn't mainly what this suggestion was about. It was mostly about investments and loans still being a thing on this site.

Your reply was informative and what im getting from it is that funding and asking for funding will still be a part of this site, but it will be primarly in the Recruitment & Staff section?

I just got confused when staff in chatbox said that when the Investments & Loans section was removed, removing the whole concept of investing and loaning on the site would naturally follow.

Paying your way into a position is common practice with a lot of the businesses being run on MC-Market. It’s a means of finding people dedicated to your project, filling a position, and also acquiring additional financial resources. The difference being, you’re obtaining something in return. A position. It’s a trade, and one which is complete soon after it is agreed to. This is very much different from accepting someone’s money and giving back a promise that one day in the future you may return it to them.

There was something about your response that made it seem like I might not have expressed this properly, so just to be perfectly clear, no, users will not be able to request investments or loans in Recruitment & Staff. They will, however, be able to continue requesting partners and staff members, with financial support requirements in order for the position to be granted.

 

[Wezel]

Paying your way into a position is common practice with a lot of the businesses being run on MC-Market. It’s a means of finding people dedicated to your project, filling a position, and also acquiring additional financial resources. The difference being, you’re obtaining something in return. A position. It’s a trade, and one which is complete soon after it is agreed to. This is very much different from accepting someone’s money and giving back a promise that one day in the future you may return it to them.

There was something about your response that made it seem like I might not have expressed this properly, so just to be perfectly clear, no, users will not be able to request investments or loans in Recruitment & Staff. They will, however, be able to continue requesting partners and staff members, with financial support requirements in order for the position to be granted.

Alright. So making a thread saying "In need of investments for my project" is not allowed, but making one as "Hiring investors for my project / partners that can help with funding" is?

 

[Franix]

The community’s opinion has already been heard, there’s no need to go through the voting process all over again.

Funny that a staff member uses this argument when they make a suggestion that passes, though when there is a positive/negative ratio like this on a regular users suggestion it can get denied.

 

[Wezel]

This argument would have been better made in the original thread instead of making a second thread for discussing the same topic, and after it has just been accepted with 87 agrees and 10 disagrees, no less. The community’s opinion has already been heard, there’s no need to go through the voting process all over again.

For the record, this suggestion was not to keep the Investments & Loan section, I know that already has been accepted by Mick and will be put in place. It was a suggestion to not remove the concept of loaning and investing from the site completely, as several staff members told me was a natural thing to do since the section is being removed. That is where I disagree.

 

[Justis]

In need of investments for my project

Correct, this will not be allowed.

Hiring investors for my project

Incorrect. This will also not be allowed.

partners that can help with funding

Correct. This will be allowed.

The important difference between a partner and an investor is that you owe one money, the other, you do not.
Seeking partners here will be fine, seeking investors will not be. If you’re looking to post a thread, and you aren’t sure whether what you’re about to ask for is a partner or an investor, then always feel free to create a ticket to request assistance from our team.
The word "invest" has meanings applicable to any situation in which time, money, or effort is put into something with the expectation that something will be achieved as a result, so perhaps that word is confusing to use in this conversation.
We are specifically only banning the practice of seeking to borrow money from members of our community.

 

[rida]

Awesome, banning investments here is a huge positive change.

Most of the projects on here that seek investments or people seeking loans are seeking anywhere from $5 - $500. Might seem big when you're starting out your first project, but when you launch something bigger and you're scrambling trying to seek VCs to get tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars for a project... it's really a drop in the bucket. My point being, most of these projects or problems can be solved with a minimum wage job, or an off-job moving furniture or mowing lawns.

If you're looking for serious investments for a Minecraft server, exhausting all your resources contacting other server owners and known investors and friends is the way to go. If you're looking for investments for an odd website, finding (a) co-founder(s) with funding is the way to go, that way they are known to be passionate about the project and have a foot in the door. If you're looking for funding for a startup, angel investors, VCs, family & friends, co-founders.

Self-funding can and should apply to all of these projects, get a job to help your project get off the ground, once it is, apply yourself to it full time.[DOUBLEPOST=1599672085][/DOUBLEPOST]

Bottom line is this would result in loss of users on this site since they would have to go elsewhere to look for these kind of services.

To respond to OP, this should be the point of the change. People shouldn't be coming to a Minecraft forum for investments & loans, they should be going to reputable, consequential sources for investments.

 

[Wezel]

To respond to OP, this should be the point of the change. People shouldn't be coming to a Minecraft forum for investments & loans, they should be going to reputable, consequential sources for investments.

By that logic, should they be going to registered advertising firms to get advertisement for their servers?

Should they go to a law firm or take illegal activity that happens here up in a irl court, than in a scam report? Like, if they get scammed thats stealing, and should be handled by the police right?

Should they get people with actual education from a uni in their field instead of the many self proclaimed experts on here?

There are tons of "unreputable" things happeneing on this site, should all of those be banned? There wouldn't be a site left

 

[Mick]

By that logic, should they be going to registered advertising firms to get advertisement for their servers?

Should they go to a law firm or take illegal activity that happens here up in a irl court, than in a scam report? Like, if they get scammed thats stealing, and should be handled by the police right?

Should they get people with actual education from a uni in their field instead of the many self proclaimed experts on here?

There are tons of "unreputable" things happeneing on this site, should all of those be banned? There wouldn't be a site left

Investments and loans is different to the examples that you have mentioned here. Freelancing for advertising and other services is perfectly legal and legitimate and will not result in you directly losing money for those services being provided, which isn't the case with investments and loans which are a very common way of scamming. We have instituted policies regarding loans to set a limit on the maximum amount of interest that can be charged to a user, but still, this isn't enough. If there is illegal activity that happens here and you lose a considerable amount of money then, yes taking it to a law firm to sue the person or to a mediator is a good way to go about getting compensation for your loss. In most cases, the amounts traded here are low enough that this isn't practical or required though.

There is absolutely no point in us removing the investments and loans forum from the site but continue to allow people to request investments and loans elsewhere. When we remove the forum, we will also be removing any threads relating to them.

Denied, thanks for the suggestion.