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Ivain

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I could not find a way to explain this in a simple way in the title, so I'll have to explain it here.

Lately I've noticed (like a lot of other people) that the Loans section is a popular place for scammers. As the case of Panic showed, the current restrictions are far from a guarantee.

Now, I have an idea that might make it less likely to get scammed.

Basically, when you take out a loan, you give the person who gave you the money something to hold onto until you repay the loan. This should be of roughly equal value (though ideally slightly less).
This can be a build, an account (though I don't recommend it), server files for the larger loans, CS:GO skins for smaller ones. You get the point

If the Loaner runs off with the product, they won't get their money back AND will be eligible for a scam report. Of course there is still a risk of charging back, but that cannot be countered short of invoices, which are unlikely for most loans.

If the Loanee runs off with the money, the Loaner has something of nearly equal value to compensate and can still open a scam report. Charging back in THIS case is also an option, depending on circumstances.

This way, scammers will be discouraged from scamming with loans, as they have to obtain something of roughly equal value before being able to take out a loan. This makes it a LOT more difficult to scam someone out of their money.

Of course, it would still be allowed to give out loans without requiring this, but it would result in you putting yourself at risk of scammers.

With investments, this is a different matter.
What I recommend for investments is that the person asking for the investment puts their service as a guarantee.
For example, if I was to get a total of $1000 investments for a server, I'd put my terraforming service up as guarantee.
Should it fail, I would offer to pay back a % of the amount each person invested through my service.
If someone paid $60, I'd offer to make them a warzone worth $30-40 for free. That way, they'd feel safer investing, since if it failed they'd at least get PART of their money back.
 
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Arshi

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This is happening in the Steam section too with csgo skins. A lot of people are getting messages from brand new members buying skins with paypal (Most likely a scam)
 

Ivain

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Eh, I'm fine with just charging back, its not like i'll loose.

But if others want to do this, thats fine :)
glad that you;ve got a solid method to get money back from people that scam :p.
But yeah, I feel like this would discourage the scammers from even trying, if this became normal. That'd save you the effort of charging back as well.
 

Ivain

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"The person granting the loan would steal the other user's resource, or whatever they're offering, and run away with that resource and scam the person receiving the loan."
This is the main con I could see from your thread.
The only problem is that the loan giver can charge back. If that was not an option, it would be a fair trade, even one that disadvantages the loan giver.
If a way is found around that, (say, giving a choice between G&S and no proofing, and F&F with proofing), it could still make it viable.
Anyway, I do understand the risk, and this is why I suggested it not be made a rule, but more a choice. Same goes for the part where people do not carry around resources. This is again, very true. This suggestion was not originally meant to apply to ALL cases, which is something I should probably include in the post.


I agree that we should implement some form of education. If one or more experienced loaners could come together to make a document like that, I'm perfectly willing to lobby for it to be implemented.

Apart from that, I believe it should be encouraged for people asking for investments to put their service as a guarantee. While this will not stop investment scammers from running with the money, it prevent legitimate people whose project failed from being unable to pay back for no other reason than a low period of sales of their other service.
 

Tofty

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People (like me) already have the common sense to do this on larger loans anyway. Why are you even suggesting this? If its not compulsory, where would it go?
 

Ivain

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People (like me) already have the common sense to do this on larger loans anyway. Why are you even suggesting this? If its not compulsory, where would it go?
Considering the amount of loan scams I've been seeing, people with common sense seem in short supply.
This went here because there is no place to post suggestions to the commnunity instead of the site
 

Tofty

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Considering the amount of loan scams I've been seeing, people with common sense seem in short supply.
This went here because there is no place to post suggestions to the commnunity instead of the site
However BeBos wont have to implement anything, correct?
 

Ivain

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However BeBos wont have to implement anything, correct?
not at this stage. Maybe if I get a more practical idea based on this. But yeah, at the present its not intended to be something enforced or implemented quite yet
 

Ivain

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Do not try to govern the loan market. Let people make decisions on their own. We don't need this implemented.
You may wanna try to read the parts where I say this won't be an enforced suggestion.
Besides, if staff decides that the loans section has too many scams, it'll go the same path as the accounts section.
If you don't want to have that happen, maybe try to inform some of your less experienced colleagues on how to not get their asses scammed. I can't do it, I'm not experienced in the loans section.
 

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Great idea, but not sure why you're making it a suggestion. Any person giving or receiving a loan does so at their own risk. MC-Market should not try to manipulate the market in such a way, layman's terms: it's a bad idea... Go tell people who give 'loans' to implement this into their stores.
 

Mick

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Great idea, but not sure why you're making it a suggestion. Any person giving or receiving a loan does so at their own risk. MC-Market should not try to manipulate the market in such a way, layman's terms: it's a bad idea... Go tell people who give 'loans' to implement this into their stores.
Overlord summed this suggestion up pretty well. MC-Market won't force members to loan out money or receive money in a certain way. The people this should be suggested to is the people who often give out loans.

This suggestion has been denied.

Thanks for your suggestion.
 
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