Make Lenders Comply

[tjrgg]

EDIT:
To clarify, I'm suggesting that MCM needs to enforce their terms regarding illegal activity, meaning that they should ensure that lenders aren't charging more interest than they should be. I am ONLY suggesting that lending should be removed if MCM doesn't want to enforce their own terms.

Loansharking is illegal and yet, this site allows users to get away with it.

First of all loaners, it is interest, not ROI. If the amount you are receiving is guaranteed, it is not an investment and therefore, you are charging interest. Please get the terminology right. You aren't doing any favors by misleading users.

Second of all, I understand that not everyone here may care or even know what loansharking is and I also understand that loaners may feel that they can't make a profit if they don't charge a ridiculous amount of interest. However, none of that excuses anyone from deliberately breaking the law and this site's TOS. I'd also argue that you can profit from loaning money, if you do it right and have lots of it. Just ask your bank.

The worst part about this is that the site and its moderators aren't even doing anything about it and allowing this illegal activity to take place. All the loaners on this site are legitimate scammers and everyone is just letting them get away with it. It's quite sad when you think about it.

I'm purposing that this site needs to enforce compliance with the TOS (particularly, the "Code of Conduct" section, which clearly prohibits illegal activities) or disallow users to loan money to other users on this site.

In the US, the maximum amount of interest you can charge varies from state to state and it may even vary based on the type of loan. However, as a general rule of thumb, the maximum amount of interest you can charge on a personal loan in the US is 10%. I won't pretend to know the laws of other countries, but I'm sure other countries have similar legislation in place.

I strongly hope that this suggestion will be supported by users. It's in the best interest of the site, loaners and borrowers that this change happens. Members of this site need to know that if they want to be in business, they need to do it right. We're doing more harm than good by allowing this to continue like this. Make it stop, for the love of all that's Holy!

 

[tjrgg]

Mick I see you disagree. I'm kinda curious why. I mean, I realize that the terms don't make you liable for lenders that scam on this site, but you don't think it's wrong that you're allowing this illegal activity to take place on your site. I honestly find that very sad and disappointing. Not everything is about the sellers on this site, you know. You need to have happy buyers to have a successful marketplace.

 

[Mick]

Mick I see you disagree. I'm kinda curious why. I mean, I realize that the terms don't make you liable for lenders that scam on this site, but you don't think it's wrong that you're allowing this illegal activity to take place on your site. I honestly find that very sad and disappointing. Not everything is about the sellers on this site, you know. You need to have happy buyers to have a successful marketplace.

I simply don't understand where your concern is coming from. You're making it sound like having a loaning service is equivalent to scamming, but it's buyers own decision whether they want to be loaned money or not. I see that you also offer middleman services, are you a licensed company like http://Escrow.com and do you follow all of the regulations there?

 

[tmoflash]

Loansharking is illegal and yet, this site allows users to get away with it.

First of all loaners, it is interest, not ROI. If the amount you are receiving is guaranteed, it is not an investment and therefore, you are charging interest. Please get the terminology right. You aren't doing any favors by misleading users.

Second of all, I understand that not everyone here may care or even know what loansharking is and I also understand that loaners may feel that they can't make a profit if they don't charge a ridiculous amount of interest. However, none of that excuses anyone from deliberately breaking the law and this site's TOS. I'd also argue that you can profit from loaning money, if you do it right and have lots of it. Just ask your bank.

The worst part about this is that the site and its moderators aren't even doing anything about it and allowing this illegal activity to take place. All the loaners on this site are legitimate scammers and everyone is just letting them get away with it. It's quite sad when you think about it.

I'm purposing that this site needs to enforce compliance with the TOS (particularly, the "Code of Conduct" section, which clearly prohibits illegal activities) or disallow users to loan money to other users on this site.

In the US, the maximum amount of interest you can charge varies from state to state and it may even vary based on the type of loan. However, as a general rule of thumb, the maximum amount of interest you can charge on a personal loan in the US is 10%. I won't pretend to know the laws of other countries, but I'm sure other countries have similar legislation in place.

I strongly hope that this suggestion will be supported by users. It's in the best interest of the site, loaners and borrowers that this change happens. Members of this site need to know that if they want to be in business, they need to do it right. We're doing more harm than good by allowing this to continue like this. Make it stop, for the love of all that's Holy!

What's the point in making this thread? It serves no point, loans are extremely valuable. I think your issue is, that you don't like the interest, not the loaning services it's self. Now I get some points you are making, however some of them are pointless to point out. As mick said it is the buyers choice. Think of it as if you're at a lemonade stand, selling lemonade on the side of the road, it doesn't have to be registered nor is it illegal. I offer loans, and I do it to make a little money, and help people out. It's simply how businesses work.

 

[Ivain]

So basically, this is a suggestion to set a maximum interest rate of 10%, to comply with laws, right?
The question would be whether the loaning system here would be counted as official loans, or unofficial loans given by acquaintances.
This is not a call I can make, but it's the question on which the validity of this thread depends.
The interest is often through the roof in comparison to, say, going to a bank. That's for sure. However, it also comes without the extensive hassle. Most of this site's population, when going to an official loan service, would be unable to secure a loan because they're underage, or have no official income. On top of that, there's often a minimum amount of money that you must take out if you want a loan (no bank is gonna give you an official loan on $10).

So, again, the question is whether to see the loan services here as official loans with full legal ramifications, or to see it as friends loaning each other money and promising to repay a certain amount. Considering most loans normally taken out START at the same amount as the very highest loans ever given between 2 individuals here, I'm inclined to see it as the second option.

However, apart from that, I'm ambivalent on this. I lack the knowledge and experience. Just wanted to say the above.

 

[tjrgg]

I simply don't understand where your concern is coming from. You're making it sound like having a loaning service is equivalent to scamming, but it's buyers own decision whether they want to be loaned money or not. I see that you also offer middleman services, are you a licensed company like http://Escrow.com and do you follow all of the regulations there?

I haven't actually provided any middleman services to any users on this site and don't plan to. I haven't done business on this site for a long time. But, had I provided such services on this site, yes, I would have followed all regulations. That argument has no merit.

On your point that the user is choosing to accept the interest charge: Quite simply, it doesn't matter whether the user accepts it or not. Legally speaking, they are under no obligation to honor the agreement if the interest is higher than the legal limit. Every single person on this site can sue anyone that they borrowed money from that charged interest and get that interest back if they wanted to. Your terms explicitly state that activity on this site should be legal. This activity is not and I'll happily start finding the statues for anyone that disagrees with that. You can justify the activity however you would like, but that doesn't make the activity legal.

What's the point in making this thread? It serves no point, loans are extremely valuable. I think your issue is, that you don't like the interest, not the loaning services it's self. Now I get some points you are making, however some of them are pointless to point out. As mick said it is the buyers choice. Think of it as if you're at a lemonade stand, selling lemonade on the side of the road, it doesn't have to be registered nor is it illegal. I offer loans, and I do it to make a little money, and help people out. It's simply how businesses work.

Mick is simply saying the borrower makes a choice to accept the interest charge, but they are under no obligation to accept it or even honor it if it's too high. It's the lender's responsibility to ensure the interest they are charging is appropriate. If I make a deal with you to buy drugs and don't pay, does that mean I still have to pay? Legally speaking, no. Why? Because no court is going to enforce a contract that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

You're right. I have no issue with people lending money to other users on the site. The only thing I have an issue with is the interest they charge. I am simply purposing two options: a) properly enforce the terms on lenders (meaning make sure they don't charge excessive interest); or b) don't allow lending to take place on the site if you don't want to enforce the terms.

So basically, this is a suggestion to set a maximum interest rate of 10%, to comply with laws, right?
The question would be whether the loaning system here would be counted as official loans, or unofficial loans given by acquaintances.
This is not a call I can make, but it's the question on which the validity of this thread depends.
The interest is often through the roof in comparison to, say, going to a bank. That's for sure. However, it also comes without the extensive hassle. Most of this site's population, when going to an official loan service, would be unable to secure a loan because they're underage, or have no official income. On top of that, there's often a minimum amount of money that you must take out if you want a loan (no bank is gonna give you an official loan on $10).

So, again, the question is whether to see the loan services here as official loans with full legal ramifications, or to see it as friends loaning each other money and promising to repay a certain amount. Considering most loans normally taken out START at the same amount as the very highest loans ever given between 2 individuals here, I'm inclined to see it as the second option.

However, apart from that, I'm ambivalent on this. I lack the knowledge and experience. Just wanted to say the above.

It's considered an "official" loan, regardless of how it originates. You don't need formal legal documents from a bank to make a loan a loan. A simple agreement between the two of us that you loan me X and I will return X with 10% interest suffices as a loan. The law makes this call, not the site.

As for people not able to secure a loan, I agree with you. But that isn't relevant to what I'm suggesting here. You are not allowed to charge extra interest just because someone can't get a loan from a traditional method. I'd argue that anyone underage shouldn't be loaning $10 anyway, but I disgress.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

I think your issue is, that you don't like the interest, not the loaning services it's self. Now I get some points you are making, however some of them are pointless to point out. As mick said it is the buyers choice.

1. I don't believe he would have an issue with high(er) interest rates if it were legal, because he could simply avoid it himself. He's just more concerned with the fact that it's illegal period.

2. No, it's not really up the the buyer. There are many laws that restrict what businesses can and can not do, and without reading every single one, I'm willing to bet most of them don't say "unless the buyer wants to go outside the bounds of what is legally allowed".

I personally agree with this, but I don't see it changing. Most people won't see it as a big deal because it's a Minecraft forum but at the end of the day, the point is valid. The issue I see is moderators/admins will say they'll likely have to do more work to ensure every loan thread is following the law according to the user's state.

 

[omarhachach]

Isn't 10% as the interest rate limit kind of misleading? I just read a little online, and interest rate limits differ from state to state, ranging anywhere from 8% to 48% to no limit.

And in any case, MCM is based in Perth, Australia, so the US law doesn't apply here. I tried finding the Australian limit, but the only figure I could land on was 48%, but I don't think that was for the same kind of loan as we're speaking of. I also read that loans under $2,000 are illegal if they are to be repaid in 15 days (in Australia). But it was really confusing, so you can read into it.

My point is that you're thinking US limits, and even so it varies from state to state. If you've found the Australian limit, you can just dismiss this message I guess.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

Isn't 10% as the interest rate limit kind of misleading? I just read a little online, and interest rate limits differ from state to state, ranging anywhere from 8% to 48% to no limit.

In the US, the maximum amount of interest you can charge varies from state to state and it may even vary based on the type of loan.

He knows that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the loan isn't being offered by or through MCM, so it depends on what state the person offering the loan is in. MCM's only role in almost any transaction is to allow two individuals to communicate, at least that's my understanding of it.

 

[omarhachach]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the loan isn't being offered by or through MCM, so it depends on what state the person offering the loan is in. MCM's only role in almost any transaction is to allow two individuals to communicate, at least that's my understanding of it.

My understanding is that all Australian laws apply to MCM.
MCM may very well not be offering the laws themselves, but in the TOS it states that users may not upload, post or trasmit anything that violates the law. The law in this case being Australian law.

He even uses this as a basis for one of his arguments:

I'm purposing that this site needs to enforce compliance with the TOS (particularly, the "Code of Conduct" section, which clearly prohibits illegal activities)

My concern is that he is looking at the wrong body of law.

 

[Aekalix]

tjrgg I would wholeheartedly agree with you if the borrower would also give me all the information banks request and I would able to seize their property if they don't pay but guess what, they won't and I can't. Why would the people that take the most risk by helping people try and comply with the law, they would have to take an even bigger risk..

If the risk of scamming wouldn't be so high, interest/roi would be a lot lower.

 

[tjrgg]

Isn't 10% as the interest rate limit kind of misleading? I just read a little online, and interest rate limits differ from state to state, ranging anywhere from 8% to 48% to no limit.

And in any case, MCM is based in Perth, Australia, so the US law doesn't apply here. I tried finding the Australian limit, but the only figure I could land on was 48%, but I don't think that was for the same kind of loan as we're speaking of. I also read that loans under $2,000 are illegal if they are to be repaid in 15 days (in Australia). But it was really confusing, so you can read into it.

My point is that you're thinking US limits, and even so it varies from state to state. If you've found the Australian limit, you can just dismiss this message I guess.

It's not misleading at all. I did mention that it varies from state to state and it also varies based on the type of loan you are offering. In this case, most (if not all) loans given on this site would fall under the "personal loan" category.

You are right that it is limits in the United States that I was referring to and I mentioned that in my post. However, the US isn't the only country with laws like these. Australia has them too.

Regardless of that, you're incorrect in how the law is applied. This refers to users of the site doing business with each other, not business between a user and MCM. In order to do business, you need to follow the laws in your country and I'm willing to bet that there are more users from the United States than any other country on this site. US law is relevant here and it applies to a large number of users on this site.

He knows that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the loan isn't being offered by or through MCM, so it depends on what state the person offering the loan is in. MCM's only role in almost any transaction is to allow two individuals to communicate, at least that's my understanding of it.

This is correct. As I mentioned in my reply to Omar H, MCM is not a party to any business transactions that are conducted by users on this site. The only transactions with MCM are your registration to the site, the purchase of ranks and the purchase of any advertising.

My understanding is that all Australian laws apply to MCM.
MCM may very well not be offering the laws themselves, but in the TOS it states that users may not upload, post or trasmit anything that violates the law. The law in this case being Australian law.

He even uses this as a basis for one of his arguments:

My concern is that he is looking at the wrong body of law.

You're understanding would be incorrect in this case. If the parties doing business were the user and MCM, that would be accurate, but that's simply not the case. I'm from the US and we'll say you are from AU. If we do business together, the laws of the US would apply to me and the laws of the AU would apply to you unless we agreed otherwise.

Also, please refer to the ELIGIBILITY section of the terms. It clearly states that you agree that you "...(ii) will comply with these TOS and all applicable local, state, national, and international laws, rules, and regulations...", "applicable" being the keyword here. That word means that you'll comply with the laws that apply and are relevant to you.

IVe seen loan sharks offer 50% interest. I don't know what laws they are breaking and what problems there are. You try getting a loan from an unofficial financial institution(not a bank) and see how much they charge you in interest. 40-50%

Loansharking is simply charging more interest than you are allowed to charge. So, that could be 50%, 100%, or even 11% if that's too much interest. A loan doesn't need to be given by a bank in order for the law to apply. BTW, an "unofficial financial institution" is simply not a finanical institution and unless you are getting a personal loan from a friend or something, I wouldn't recommend getting your loans from companies that aren't finanical instituions, but I disgress.

tjrgg I would wholeheartedly agree with you if the borrower would also give me all the information banks request and I would able to seize their property if they don't pay but guess what, they won't and I can't. Why would the people that take the most risk by helping people try and comply with the law, they would have to take an even bigger risk..

If the risk of scamming wouldn't be so high, interest/roi would be a lot lower.

You don't need to collect all the information the bank does and collateral to have an enforceable loan contract. If you don't collect information from your customers, that's your own problem. Why does the borrower need to eat the fact that you don't collect information by paying illegal interest charges? I know I don't want to eat that. The laws apply whether you are a bank or not. The people that run our governments aren't stupid and know that family and friends will loan each other money. There are laws that govern it.

If the risk of scamming is too high for you, don't loan money. Simple as that. Just because there is a high risk that you may be scammed, doesn't give you the right to scam others and charge higher interest.


Guys, whether you like it or not, there are rules in place for a reason. Just because you refuse to accept them, doesn't mean they aren't there and you don't have to follow them. I have a family member in law and I have quite a bit of experience working with legalities being a businessperson, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Aekalix]

It's not misleading at all. I did mention that it varies from state to state and it also varies based on the type of loan you are offering. In this case, most (if not all) loans given on this site would fall under the "personal loan" category.

You are right that it is limits in the United States that I was referring to and I mentioned that in my post. However, the US isn't the only country with laws like these. Australia has them too.

Regardless of that, you're incorrect in how the law is applied. This refers to users of the site doing business with each other, not business between a user and MCM. In order to do business, you need to follow the laws in your country and I'm willing to bet that there are more users from the United States than any other country on this site. US law is relevant here and it applies to a large number of users on this site.


This is correct. As I mentioned in my reply to Omar H, MCM is not a party to any business transactions that are conducted by users on this site. The only transactions with MCM are your registration to the site, the purchase of ranks and the purchase of any advertising.


You're understanding would be incorrect in this case. If the parties doing business were the user and MCM, that would be accurate, but that's simply not the case. I'm from the US and we'll say you are from AU. If we do business together, the laws of the US would apply to me and the laws of the AU would apply to you unless we agreed otherwise.

Also, please refer to the ELIGIBILITY section of the terms. It clearly states that you agree that you "...(ii) will comply with these TOS and all applicable local, state, national, and international laws, rules, and regulations...", "applicable" being the keyword here. That word means that you'll comply with the laws that apply and are relevant to you.


Loansharking is simply charging more interest than you are allowed to charge. So, that could be 50%, 100%, or even 11% if that's too much interest. A loan doesn't need to be given by a bank in order for the law to apply. BTW, an "unofficial financial institution" is simply not a finanical institution and unless you are getting a personal loan from a friend or something, I wouldn't recommend getting your loans from companies that aren't finanical instituions, but I disgress.


You don't need to collect all the information the bank does and collateral to have an enforceable loan contract. If you don't collect information from your customers, that's your own problem. Why does the borrower need to eat the fact that you don't collect information by paying illegal interest charges? I know I don't want to eat that. The laws apply whether you are a bank or not. The people that run our governments aren't stupid and know that family and friends will loan each other money. There are laws that govern it.

If the risk of scamming is too high for you, don't loan money. Simple as that. Just because there is a high risk that you may be scammed, doesn't give you the right to scam others and charge higher interest.


Guys, whether you like it or not, there are rules in place for a reason. Just because you refuse to accept them, doesn't mean they aren't there and you don't have to follow them. I have a family member in law and I have quite a bit of experience working with legalities being a businessperson, so I know what I'm talking about.

You know scamming is also against the law? Everybody does it. I think you take something way to seriously. Neither do I think any of your arguments are valid but, whatever floats your boat.

The interest is also a lot higher because there is a huge risk for the loaner involved. I still don't see a reason to change it, it has done no harm at all. I dunno why this is suggested either.

Also:

 

[Taiga]

The suggestion just feels very unrealistic. First, payday loans are a thing. Second, this is more categorized has two friends loaning eachother money then a bank loaning money to a customer, which involves ALOT more laws then private loaning.
Third, and most importantly, without legal paper, a loan is a gift if any of the two sides says its a gift. People here arent loaning money in the eyes of the law, they are giving eachother money without any ties (except what the middleman says (aka paypal/bank)), not loaning, due to the constant lack of legal papers and a constant usage of "plz no scam".

 

[reckoning]

Pretty sure the laws of websites apply from where it’s hosted, and it probably won’t be hosted in Australia as the pricing for hosting is jacked up,

 

[omarhachach]

You're understanding would be incorrect in this case. If the parties doing business were the user and MCM, that would be accurate, but that's simply not the case. I'm from the US and we'll say you are from AU. If we do business together, the laws of the US would apply to me and the laws of the AU would apply to you unless we agreed otherwise.

Also, please refer to the ELIGIBILITY section of the terms. It clearly states that you agree that you "...(ii) will comply with these TOS and all applicable local, state, national, and international laws, rules, and regulations...", "applicable" being the keyword here. That word means that you'll comply with the laws that apply and are relevant to you.

Oh okay.
But in this case, applying US law to MCM wouldn't make sense.
Forcing the US law for me, a danish citizen, wouldn't benefit Mick or me, so it really doesn't make sense.

If I get a loan from a US citizen with an interest rate at 50%, which is well over the 10% limit, I am breaking the TOS by doing something illegal, correct? But I do not see how MCM in any way could enforce this. They wouldn't know that I am breaking the law.
Not only do they need to know what country I live in, but also what laws apply to me for said country. If anything, your thread makes the argument that the TOS is flawed.

That's why it really doesn't make sense to me that Australian law isn't the law enforced on MCM.

I gathered my understanding (that Australian law applys to MCM users) from the GENERAL PROVISIONS section of the TOS, where it says:

The TOS shall be governed by the laws of Perth, Australia [...]

I am no lawyer, but to me it seems that the TOS is governed by the law of Australia, which means anything referenced as illegal in the TOS, would be illegal in the context of the Australian body of law.
So, if we go to the CONTENT RESTRICTIONS section of the TOS where it says:

You may not upload, post, or transmit (collectively, "submit") any text, images, videos, sounds, or other works (collectively, "content") that: [...] (viii) Violates any law."

I gather that it doesn't violate any law of Australia, since that is the body of law which applies to the TOS.

That's why I draw my conclusion that if this is ever applied, it should be the Australian rate limits which should apply, not some US rate limit, since that wouldn't be to benefit of users outside of the US, and Mick.

I myself wouldn't be effected in any way by an enforced limit on interest rates on MCM, since I do not do loans, and do not take loans. But I am just concered about whether or not your arguments really hold up.

And in any case, I have to agree with Taiga, the loans here are really just gifts, where you expect a return gift, but run the risk of never recieving it.
You do not know anything about the lender. Age, location, name, intent. Completely anonymous gifting.

 

[MisfitNerd]

Some stuff to point out here:

1. We call it ROI for a reason. When we loaners send out loans we take a risk and hope we return that money, much like an investor does. There's no contracts or anything that legally bind the person to returning the money. The only thing we can do is make a scam report and maybe report their PayPal if necessary. Otherwise if they don't pay up or chargeback we get screwed. So in a way it really is a return on investment.

2. Just because the "interest" rates may not be within US legal limits doesn't necessarily mean we're breaking any law. Somewhere above you talked about how if you're buying drugs from someone and don't pay them they can't sue you because you weren't within legal limits anyways. The same applies here. It just means our loans aren't considered legal, so we can't take that kind of thing to a signed contract or sue if the person doesn't return it. Again, not necessarily illegal.

3. I'm sorry, but loansharking is definitely not what anyone here does. Loansharks don't take all the risks we do here. They don't risk giving money to someone they don't know in hopes to return it. They'll want to deal in person and get information off of you so they can essentially harm you or your loved ones if you fail to return your loan. That is NOT what we do here. While most of my loans have been successful, I've gotten screwed. Guess what? I didn't go after anyone. I sucked it up and dealt with it like a big boy.

4. I'd say all loans here, considered that they aren't bound by anything legally, would easily be considered "friend to friend loans". As long as we aren't trying to make the other person legally liable for failure to return I don't see how anything is wrong. If you gave your friend $50 would you sue him for not returning it? No. You'd just get over it. It's the same thing here.

Now I'd completely agree if loaners would be trying to make users sign contracts and give out personal information so they could have means of contact and a way to easily sue the user in question. But that's not what happens. I've seen more people here get screwed from loans than anything else. Most scam reports and banned users come from loans. It's one of the riskiest businesses here. We get screwed... a lot. Doesn't mean that we're out there breaking the law. We just take risks that sometimes reap reward, and sometimes bit us in the ass.

So technically yes I agree, if you're trying to make it a legal or official loan. But nobody here is. No one owns a loaning "company". No one here is a licensed businessman. But if they were to try to make this legal or make MCM liable for users here I would be able to agree on your suggestion. Sadly I can't because of the situation here.

https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31661

This article helped me as well.

 

[Mick]

Some stuff to point out here:

1. We call it ROI for a reason. When we loaners send out loans we take a risk and hope we return that money, much like an investor does. There's no contracts or anything that legally bind the person to returning the money. The only thing we can do is make a scam report and maybe report their PayPal if necessary. Otherwise if they don't pay up or chargeback we get screwed. So in a way it really is a return on investment.

2. Just because the "interest" rates may not be within US legal limits doesn't necessarily mean we're breaking any law. Somewhere above you talked about how if you're buying drugs from someone and don't pay them they can't sue you because you weren't within legal limits anyways. The same applies here. It just means our loans aren't considered legal, so we can't take that kind of thing to a signed contract or sue if the person doesn't return it. Again, not necessarily illegal.

3. I'm sorry, but loansharking is definitely not what anyone here does. Loansharks don't take all the risks we do here. They don't risk giving money to someone they don't know in hopes to return it. They'll want to deal in person and get information off of you so they can essentially harm you or your loved ones if you fail to return your loan. That is NOT what we do here. While most of my loans have been successful, I've gotten screwed. Guess what? I didn't go after anyone. I sucked it up and dealt with it like a big boy.

4. I'd say all loans here, considered that they aren't bound by anything legally, would easily be considered "friend to friend loans". As long as we aren't trying to make the other person legally liable for failure to return I don't see how anything is wrong. If you gave your friend $50 would you sue him for not returning it? No. You'd just get over it. It's the same thing here.

Now I'd completely agree if loaners would be trying to make users sign contracts and give out personal information so they could have means of contact and a way to easily sue the user in question. But that's not what happens. I've seen more people here get screwed from loans than anything else. Most scam reports and banned users come from loans. It's one of the riskiest businesses here. We get screwed... a lot. Doesn't mean that we're out there breaking the law. We just take risks that sometimes reap reward, and sometimes bit us in the ass.

So technically yes I agree, if you're trying to make it a legal or official loan. But nobody here is. No one owns a loaning "company". No one here is a licensed businessman. But if they were to try to make this legal or make MCM liable for users here I would be able to agree on your suggestion. Sadly I can't because of the situation here.

https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31661

This article helped me as well.

Denied, thanks for the suggestion.