MC-Market Problems (Through my eyes)

[chucK_]

Alright, since LeCat has decided she got to share her views, I'm gonna share mine and what I personally think has happened with MCM, mostly community wise.

Staff
Don't worry, this isn't a rant on how they are bad, but rather how people mistreat them. For example, you all know I had a scam report on Myiume and now have nothing bad with him as it's resolved, but anyone you all wouldn't just expect me to jump up and defend him. He showed me how many reports and stuff he has to deal with as a moderator, and honestly it's not possible for him to do every single report, it's not possible for all the moderators to do all the reports. They try their very best and I think they do a wonderful job. I myself have opened a few scam reports in the last couple of weeks and Anthony R and tjrgg have handled them very maturely and fairly. The main problem is people don't wanna listen to the staff and make their jobs much harder. Overall as a community it feels as a state of anarchy because of the amount of people attempting to rebel against staff.

Rating and Reputation Systems
I am a large proponent of the idea that these systems are being heavily abused by some members of MCM. For example, people are posting useless comments and acting stupid on a lot of threads, as well as posting things to get loads of likes even if that might not be the opinion they have. One thing that really has set me off is montyburly and nara~kavi disagreeing with most statements on MCM to pick and choose sides to, as it seems, obtain ratings from starting flamewars with people. They have also been trying to further support the false system that Ratings == Rep in an effort to make themselves look more legitimate. In my opinion, there needs to be a greater system put into place that Ratings != Rep because I feel like to a lot of new users, the actions of the higher tiered people make it seem that way.

Sense of Hierarchy
It seems to me that there is a huge push by people who have been on the site for a long time (10+ months) or were in the first thousand or so members, that they are higher placed or more trusted than others. This is not the case with everyone, but to some it's definitely how it is, and that just goes back towards the Ratings != Rep thing. I feel like a lot of trouble becomes stirred with the users and there are attempts to discredit lower Rated or newer members. I feel like that's something that needs to change and I've posted and commented on this subject before saying that there is no reason to count someone guilty before any wrongdoing may occur.

Wanting too much too soon
I feel like when Mick took over MCM and retained ownership, most people who were "fed up" with Verringer expected a freaking brand new forums right away. It's been less than two months and there have been a lot of changes. The staff, with the exception of Jesse are all new, rules are much more enforced than with Verringer, new themes have been added, and new suggestions are being considered every day. I think the main thing is people expect everything to happen in the blink of an eye, and when you consider MCM to be barely a year old in comparison to forums like HackForums, you shouldn't expect everything to be 100% fixed. I can assure everyone new stuff is being worked on, it just takes time.

Now I'd like to approach some of my personal issues and ones brought up by other MCM members.

Professionalism
I'd like to first quote Justis from his thread here.
"Some people are rude.
That doesn't make them bad people.
That doesn't make them bad staff, or a bad example.
I want people to be themselves.
If that means being an arsehole to me, then be an arsehole.
At least then I know I'm not being lied to, or manipulated into a sort of mindless complacency."
I'm not sure is staff should go around swearing at other members, but I do feel that staff should have the rights to be able to sit back and "chill"--if you will--with other members and that there's nothing wrong with them acting like professionals when they are replying to a report or post and they also don't have to act completely stiff when in the shoutbox or casually replying to threads. As Justis said, staff aren't needed to just act so stiff all the time.

Professionalism of the community
I feel like one thing this community has lost is professionalism. I think that putting rules into place to keep the actual buy/sell/trade threads free of dumb posts and keeping them in the General Discussions area would make MCM a lot better place. There are so many flame wars on threads, arguing prices, arguing legitimacy, etc. There needs to be warnings for this so people stop doing it, because it's not "random people," it's people who are supposed to be trusted and faithful members of MCM (who are still wondering why they aren't staff).


This is really all I have to say, I might add some topics later, but I've spent at least 30 minutes compiling my thoughts. Yes, this is a response to LeCat 's thread and I feel like the community is more to blame as a whole than that of staff. It's something I've observed over my 6 months on MCM and I feel like there needs to be a revival in the community spirit.



I'ma throw the edit in here that I'm not trying to rip on anyone, and I enjoy this community, I just feel like some things have gotten outta hand. (No grammar cuz LYFE)

 

[Tank]

Wise Words from a wise man
I Support your view specially the rating system as being considered as a rep which isn't true and when you say that in front of people they'll laugh

 

[Wut]

I've been here for about a year and a quarter, and the community has literally not changed at all, nor will it ever.

People forget that we're on a fuckin' minecraft website. This is unequivocally the opposite of maturity... Nothing you point out on a thread will change peoples behavior. Also, of course there's a hierarchy, have you ever seen a group of high school seniors get beaten up by some freshmen? Na... you gotta earn your reputation and status, it just so happens that the people who have been here the longest understand the environment and have more of a place than new arrivals.[DOUBLEPOST=1447185152,1447185089][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd like to add that if you're new, shitposting to get ratings ain't gonna work....

And certainly won't gain you any more respect.

 

[nara~kavi]

i don't feel like reading your wall of text that's probably all a bunch of nonsense anyways so i'll just respond to the paragraph about us:

The majority of our posts are not made for the purposes of trolling or starting arguments, they are made because they express perspectives or beliefs that we genuinely support. We abandoned trolling/starting arguments a long time ago and have since attempted to be more professional and mature with our dealings on MC-Market. Nowadays, when we make posts in threads such as these, they are our genuine opinions, and dismissing our opinions as attempts at riling people up is just you being incapable of arguing with our points, as was demonstrated in one of your previous threads you've made or argued in.

As for the ratings vs rep argument, that isn't a personal thing, it's a matter of common sense. Most people on this site agree that anyone with over 1000 ratings is a trustworthy person. This is because this person would not have this large reputation unless they were active and well-liked on the website. A scammer just isn't going to put that much effort into an account that is going to get banned. That makes no sense.

Can a person with high ratings scam? Yeah, certainly. Is it likely? No. Most people with high ratings would not jeopardize their account by scamming as they feel that they have spent so much effort building their status within the community that it would be foolish to destroy that by doing a single scam. As for people in the past who have scammed, who were well-known in the community, such as Amaraone, most people with any sort of brains knew these people were shady to begin with. I never, ever trusted Amaraone, as his conduct and the way he did his deals were always shady, and he had many scam reports on him.

You can call ratings whatever you want, but pretending like it doesn't have any value whatsoever as a reputation system on this website is totally nonsensical. Almost anyone on this website would trust someone with 2000 ratings over someone with no ratings, and that means that it does have value as reputation. Whether or not Mick, or anyone else, likes it that way, that's the way it is, so deal with it.

 

[montyburly]

Rating and Reputation Systems
I am a large proponent of the idea that these systems are being heavily abused by some members of MCM. For example, people are posting useless comments and acting stupid on a lot of threads, as well as posting things to get loads of likes even if that might not be the opinion they have. One thing that really has set me off is montyburly and nara~kavi disagreeing with most statements on MCM to pick and choose sides to, as it seems, obtain ratings from starting flamewars with people. They have also been trying to further support the false system that Ratings == Rep in an effort to make themselves look more legitimate. In my opinion, there needs to be a greater system put into place that Ratings != Rep because I feel like to a lot of new users, the actions of the higher tiered people make it seem that way.

Sense of Hierarchy
It seems to me that there is a huge push by people who have been on the site for a long time (10+ months) or were in the first thousand or so members, that they are higher placed or more trusted than others. This is not the case with everyone, but to some it's definitely how it is, and that just goes back towards the Ratings != Rep thing. I feel like a lot of trouble becomes stirred with the users and there are attempts to discredit lower Rated or newer members. I feel like that's something that needs to change and I've posted and commented on this subject before saying that there is no reason to count someone guilty before any wrongdoing may occur.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say nara~kavi and I disagree with most statements on MCM. Why single us out? There are a lot of people with the same opinions as us. You clearly have something against us and target us whenever you can, and then try to place the blame on us. The other day you accused me of supporting Isis and the KKK out of nowhere and then tried to pin the argument on me. Stop targeting us for your arguments, we are not the only people who disagree with the new MCM rules. Take one look at all these threads and you'll see that.

Calling ratings reputation should not matter to anybody else but the person saying that. If I want to say that I believe ratings are reputation and that I trust buying from/selling to members with lots of ratings, then that is my choice. Buyers are allowed to make their own opinions on who they consider trusted on the site. Nobody has any right to tell people who they should and shouldn't trust. If you believe you can't trust someone with lots of ratings, then that is your choice. You don't have to buy from them. I do not say this "to make myself look more legitimate." Yes, I do have lots of ratings. No, it's not all from sales, but having lots of ratings means that I put time into the site and gained a reputation for myself. That makes me more trustworthy than the average joe who has no messages or ratings. I'm not saying someone with 1000 ratings won't scam, because it's happened before. I'm saying it's smarter to trust someone with lots of ratings over someone with none. Having a spot that displays vouches on someone's profile would stop this entire argument, but since there is none I, and many others, will continue to trust high-rated members more than low-rated members, whether you agree with that or not.

 

[Tank]

i don't feel like reading your wall of text that's probably all a bunch of nonsense anyways so i'll just respond to the paragraph about us:

What you may perceive as us "disagreeing with most statements on MCM" would likely be because we are both older than most people here and because we are both females, and thus have a differing perspective on things than most of the prepubescent little boys that post on this website. The majority of our posts are not made for the purposes of trolling or starting arguments, they are made because they express perspectives or beliefs that we genuinely support. We abandoned trolling/starting arguments a long time ago and have since attempted to be more professional and mature with our dealings on MC-Market. Nowadays, when we make posts in threads such as these, they are our genuine opinions, and dismissing our opinions as attempts at riling people up is just you being incapable of arguing with our points, as was demonstrated in one of your previous threads you've made or argued in.

As for the ratings vs rep argument, that isn't a personal thing, it's a matter of common sense. Most people on this site agree that anyone with over 1000 ratings is a trustworthy person. This is because this person would not have this large reputation unless they were active and well-liked on the website. A scammer just isn't going to put that much effort into an account that is going to get banned. That makes no sense.

Can a person with high ratings scam? Yeah, certainly. Is it likely? No. Most people with high ratings would not jeopardize their account by scamming as they feel that they have spent so much effort building their status within the community that it would be foolish to destroy that by doing a single scam. As for people in the past who have scammed, who were well-known in the community, such as Amaraone, most people with any sort of brains knew these people were shady to begin with. I never, ever trusted Amaraone, as his conduct and the way he did his deals were always shady, and he had many scam reports on him.

You can call ratings whatever you want, but pretending like it doesn't have any value whatsoever as a reputation system on this website is totally nonsensical. Almost anyone on this website would trust someone with 2000 ratings over someone with no ratings, and that means that it does have value as reputation. Whether or not Mick, or anyone else, likes it that way, that's the way it is, so deal with it.

This made me laugh
Thanks for making my day

 

[chucK_]

I've been here for about a year and a quarter, and the community has literally not changed at all, nor will it ever.

People forget that we're on a fuckin' minecraft website. This is unequivocally the opposite of maturity... Nothing you point out on a thread will change peoples behavior. Also, of course there's a hierarchy, have you ever seen a group of high school seniors get beaten up by some freshmen? Na... you gotta earn your reputation and status, it just so happens that the people who have been here the longest understand the environment and have more of a place than new arrivals.[DOUBLEPOST=1447185152,1447185089][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd like to add that if you're new, shitposting to get ratings ain't gonna work....

And certainly won't gain you any more respect.

I can respect what you have to say, you make some good points. But I do think there are ways to remove this, and I feel like for this forum to get larger and succeed in the way I think it can, there needs to be a way to make people grow tf up when business comes into play and to keep their immaturity contained inside of areas like the General Discussions.

i don't feel like reading your wall of text that's probably all a bunch of nonsense anyways so i'll just respond to the paragraph about us:

What you may perceive as us "disagreeing with most statements on MCM" would likely be because we are both older than most people here and because we are both females, and thus have a differing perspective on things than most of the prepubescent little boys that post on this website. The majority of our posts are not made for the purposes of trolling or starting arguments, they are made because they express perspectives or beliefs that we genuinely support. We abandoned trolling/starting arguments a long time ago and have since attempted to be more professional and mature with our dealings on MC-Market. Nowadays, when we make posts in threads such as these, they are our genuine opinions, and dismissing our opinions as attempts at riling people up is just you being incapable of arguing with our points, as was demonstrated in one of your previous threads you've made or argued in.

As for the ratings vs rep argument, that isn't a personal thing, it's a matter of common sense. Most people on this site agree that anyone with over 1000 ratings is a trustworthy person. This is because this person would not have this large reputation unless they were active and well-liked on the website. A scammer just isn't going to put that much effort into an account that is going to get banned. That makes no sense.

Can a person with high ratings scam? Yeah, certainly. Is it likely? No. Most people with high ratings would not jeopardize their account by scamming as they feel that they have spent so much effort building their status within the community that it would be foolish to destroy that by doing a single scam. As for people in the past who have scammed, who were well-known in the community, such as Amaraone, most people with any sort of brains knew these people were shady to begin with. I never, ever trusted Amaraone, as his conduct and the way he did his deals were always shady, and he had many scam reports on him.

You can call ratings whatever you want, but pretending like it doesn't have any value whatsoever as a reputation system on this website is totally nonsensical. Almost anyone on this website would trust someone with 2000 ratings over someone with no ratings, and that means that it does have value as reputation. Whether or not Mick, or anyone else, likes it that way, that's the way it is, so deal with it.

I'm not going to respect anything you say. You have a personal agenda and you're here to promote that. That's the problem with people who have highly liberal views, you care about how you can advance and act like you're right 100% of the time. I've made it clear I don't like you so there's no reason to consistently post on my threads without reading the OP.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say nara~kavi and I disagree with most statements on MCM. Why single us out? There are a lot of people with the same opinions as us. You clearly have something against us and target us whenever you can, and then try to place the blame on us. The other day you accused me of supporting Isis and the KKK out of nowhere and then tried to pin the argument on me. Stop targeting us for your arguments, we are not the only people who disagree with the new MCM rules. Take one look at all these threads and you'll see that.

Calling ratings reputation should not matter to anybody else but the person saying that. If I want to say that I believe ratings are reputation and that I trust buying from/selling to members with lots of ratings, then that is my choice. Buyers are allowed to make their own opinions on who they consider trusted on the site. Nobody has any right to tell people who they should and shouldn't trust. If you believe you can't trust someone with lots of ratings, then that is your choice. You don't have to buy from them. I do not say this "to make myself look more legitimate." Yes, I do have lots of ratings. No, it's not all from sales, but having lots of ratings means that I put time into the site and gained a reputation for myself. That makes me more trustworthy than the average joe who has no messages or ratings. I'm not saying someone with 1000 ratings won't scam, because it's happened before. I'm saying it's smarter to trust someone with lots of ratings over someone with none. Having a spot that displays vouches on someone's profile would stop this entire argument, but since there is none I, and many others, will continue to trust high-rated members more than low-rated members, whether you agree with that or not.

Again, you comment only to defend yourself without reading the whole of the OP. When you constantly back these ideas, new members believe them. You've been banned for rate boosting, you "stopped" and I constantly see you replying to Nara's threads and vice versa. It's not HQ posts, it's LQ posts that are just like "yes I agree." OF COURSE YOU DO, YOU'RE IN THE SAME ROOM MOST OF THE TIME. Like I've said, you're not welcome on my threads due to your experiences with me in the past. And as for saying you supported the KKK or ISIS, I clearly said that you were attempting to say there was no reason to be offended by them as it wasn't happening now, and I said they are no different than ISIS or any other terror based organization. I'm not the only one who's sick of you and Nara going around acting like you're retarded kids to put on a funny show. So honestly just hop along and screw off.

 

[Tank]

I can respect what you have to say, you make some good points. But I do think there are ways to remove this, and I feel like for this forum to get larger and succeed in the way I think it can, there needs to be a way to make people grow tf up when business comes into play and to keep their immaturity contained inside of areas like the General Discussions.




I'm not going to respect anything you say. You have a personal agenda and you're here to promote that. That's the problem with people who have highly liberal views, you care about how you can advance and act like you're right 100% of the time. I've made it clear I don't like you so there's no reason to consistently post on my threads without reading the OP.




Again, you comment only to defend yourself without reading the whole of the OP. When you constantly back these ideas, new members believe them. You've been banned for rate boosting, you "stopped" and I constantly see you replying to Nara's threads and vice versa. It's not HQ posts, it's LQ posts that are just like "yes I agree." OF COURSE YOU DO, YOU'RE IN THE SAME ROOM MOST OF THE TIME. Like I've said, you're not welcome on my threads due to your experiences with me in the past. And as for saying you supported the KKK or ISIS, I clearly said that you were attempting to say there was no reason to be offended by them as it wasn't happening now, and I said they are no different than ISIS or any other terror based organization. I'm not the only one who's sick of you and Nara going around acting like you're retarded kids to put on a funny show. So honestly just hop along and screw off.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Resilience]

I agree with everything you said Kenny, this is a well constructed document thanks for writing it

 

[chucK_]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Show me some examples of me "constantly replying to Nara's threads." The only threads she even makes are shop threads and I reply to customers in those because we share our shops. I'd also like you to show a recent example of us acting like "retarded kids to put on a funny show." You clearly have something against us, as you keep starting pointless fights. Don't even try to deny that. Out of everyone on the forums who disagrees with these new rules, you tag only us in order to antagonize us.

Looks like problems solved, all the posts I reported as LQ were removed!

 

[tjrgg]

chucK_, thanks for the kind words! I try my best.

 

[Tank]

If we're not welcome in his threads, he shouldn't tag us.

He tagged you to show you as examples

 

[Justis]

-applaud-
Yes sir, I love you, and all your beautiful words.

Professionalism
I'd like to first quote Justis from his thread here.
"Some people are rude.
That doesn't make them bad people.
That doesn't make them bad staff, or a bad example.
I want people to be themselves.
If that means being an arsehole to me, then be an arsehole.
At least then I know I'm not being lied to, or manipulated into a sort of mindless complacency."
I'm not sure is staff should go around swearing at other members, but I do feel that staff should have the rights to be able to sit back and "chill"--if you will--with other members and that there's nothing wrong with them acting like professionals when they are replying to a report or post and they also don't have to act completely stiff when in the shoutbox or casually replying to threads. As Justis said, staff aren't needed to just act so stiff all the time.

I actually edited my thread and the quote got changed. >.< Oops...
But I agree with you agreeing with me. ^-^

 

[chucK_]

He tagged us to antagonize us.

He tagged you to show you as examples

I'ma throw the edit in here that I'm not trying to rip on anyone, and I enjoy this community, I just feel like some things have gotten outta hand. (No grammar cuz LYFE)

If you had taken time to read the OP

 

[nara~kavi]

If you had taken time to read the OP

lol ok if that is how it works then I could say you are really annoying and obnoxious and then say I'm not trying to rip on you or insult you I just feel things have gotten out of hand

 

[chucK_]

lol ok if that is how it works then I could say you are really annoying and obnoxious and then say I'm not trying to rip on you or insult you I just feel things have gotten out of hand

Alright, say that!

 

[Wut]

I can respect what you have to say, you make some good points. But I do think there are ways to remove this, and I feel like for this forum to get larger and succeed in the way I think it can, there needs to be a way to make people grow tf up when business comes into play and to keep their immaturity contained inside of areas like the General Discussions.

Businesses as in.... selling a $10 OG Account? By not stretch is what we're doing a business, it's like trading pokemon at school...

 

[montyburly]

If you had taken time to read the OP

I read the entire thing and saw a paragraph singling out nara~kavi and myself when we share our opinions about the rating/rep system with tons of other people. Don't claim that you didn't write that to antagonize us. If that were true, you would have either tagged nobody, or tagged everyone who agrees with us on the subject.

 

[Wut]

I read the entire thing and saw a paragraph singling out nara~kavi and myself when we share our opinions about the rating/rep system with tons of other people. Don't claim that you didn't write that to antagonize us. If that were true, you would have either tagged nobody, or tagged everyone who agrees with us on the subject.

damn monty

 

[Tank]

If he doesn't want us in his threads then he shouldn't tag us into them. Regardless, it's a free marketplace and I can post wherever I want. Just because he doesn't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I can't post in his thread. My post was constructive and he totally ignored all of the points I made and resorted to personal attacks against us. He has no ground on which to stand here. You are pathetic for defending him just because he is your friend and is, by his own admission, the person who invited you to this website.



ok thanks then shut up about it

Constructive you say lol? No I am not defending him because he's my friend and he got me to know the website which was a great honor to join the community I am defending his point of view. You see nara there are things in life people like you won't understand who are not willing to make a change, not willing to accept others opinion and I restate that you lack the open minded skill. You never accept others opinion and you don't even take it into consideration you just saw the post saying you and monty rate each other or idk what shit you did in the past and you came here block minded focusing on that point. There is a reason why your "constructive" in quotes was ignored because simply it aboloutly made no sense lol, Did you even read the thread and what it meant or you just read the Monty and Nara part and came to the comment section to trash talk and open arguments though as you said in your post you quit opening arguments but from what I can see above I see you were joking? Well respect others to be respected, respect is earned not given thank God it's not a rating lmao
Defending the Justice and Truth
-Tank