METHODS SHOULD BE ALLOWED (NO BLACKHAT / MONEY MAKING)

[X8.]

Hello, MCMarket Council, I have an actual suggestion.

So basically I know there are people here who have methods which are actually valid, like getting better at CSGO/MC, or whether it be for organically increasing YouTube following.

I came across this problem, when I wanted to sell my Instagram Niche Page organic gain method, but I couldn't sell it. Even though it was not containing any money making / black hat / unethical techniques.

I think blackhat / money making / unethical methods should still be banned.
although in general methods should be allowed (which are ethical), such as fortnite skills, organic social media gaining, finding clients, etc.

 

[Louwtjie]

Methods in general shouldn't be allowed.

 

[X8.]

Methods in general shouldn't be allowed.

Why not, the ban is focused on Money Making & Black Hat methods.

Methods which can actually benefit people, should not be banned. Am I wrong?

 

[utaninja]

* Unethical methods should be added to that. But in theory, yes.

 

[Justis]

The implication with methods is that “you are going to learn something from me, and you’re not allowed to share that knowledge with anyone else, because it’s mine”.
This is wrong. You cannot claim ownership over knowledge.
You cannot own the knowledge of something, ever.

If we were to allow methods, this would need to be clarified, which would mean that as soon as someone learns whatever they were promised by paying for your method, they can go right back to your thread and share that knowledge with everyone else. Which they likely will, because they’ll probably feel cheated for having paid for a copy pasted message telling them something they could have learned for free off of google, and want to prevent anyone else from feeling the same regret.
Not a great business model.

 

[X8.]

The implication with methods is that “you are going to learn something from me, and you’re not allowed to share that knowledge with anyone else, because it’s mine”.
This is wrong. You cannot claim ownership over knowledge.
You cannot own the knowledge of something, ever.

If we were to allow methods, this would need to be clarified, which would mean that as soon as someone learns whatever they were promised by paying for your method, they can go right back to your thread and share that knowledge with everyone else. Which they likely will, because they’ll probably feel cheated for having paid for a copy pasted message telling them something they could have learned for free off of google, and want to prevent anyone else from feeling the same regret.
Not a great business model.

I get your point, although to counter this, methods could be moderated by staff. Because methods do help people out a lot, and can be very beneficial.

 

[X8.]

Now that, is something that would take up 200% of mcms staff resources.

No, because it would only take 5 minutes max to tell if a method is legit and or plagiarised. Whilst an actual reosurce takes much more time.

 

[Justis]

I get your point, although to counter this, methods could be moderated by staff. Because methods do help people out a lot, and can be very beneficial.

No, because it would only take 5 minutes max to tell if a method is legit and or plagiarised. Whilst an actual reosurce takes much more time.

There’s nothing for staff to moderate. It doesn’t matter if you came up with the method on your own or took it off of someone else.
You do not own knowledge, and you never will.

On a side note, people seem to forget that if they’re capable of coming up with an idea on their own, then swaths of other humans are also capable of coming up with that same idea on their own. Some of them probably have, even before you, even if you’ve not heard of it before.

It doesn’t matter. Knowledge belongs to nobody.

 

[X8.]

There’s nothing for staff to moderate. It doesn’t matter if you came up with the method on your own or took it off of someone else.
You do not own knowledge, and you never will.

On a side note, people seem to forget that if they’re capable of coming up with an idea on their own, then swaths of other humans are also capable of coming up with that same idea on their own. Some of them probably have, even before you, even if you’ve not heard of it before.

It doesn’t matter. Knowledge belongs to nobody.

Then what differentiates selling Guides from Methods on here, since they are pretty much the same, and guides exist on here.

 

[Justis]

Then what differentiates selling Guides from Methods on here, since they are pretty much the same, and guides exist on here.

“Guides”? I’ve not seen any such thread. That sounds like an ebook to me, which is also disallowed.
Please create a report/support request with links to these threads so they can be reviewed.

If you’re talking about tutoring, such as a java/plugin tutoring service, then it’s important to note that the knowledge is not owned there either. Anyone is free to receive their lessons, and then make posts sharing everything they learned with the rest of the community. The reason tutoring succeeds in spite of this, is because they’re selling the service, not the knowledge; and that service is valuable enough to sustain their business. Specifically, the service they’re offering requires such a firm understanding, and is so difficult to reproduce, that they cannot be replaced by the next person to learn what they know. Understanding a programming language, for instance, is not easily done just by reading a book. Everyone would develop their own questions, and need individually crafted explanations through discussion. That’s what a tutor is offering and selling.

 

[X8.]

“Guides”? I’ve not seen any such thread. That sounds like an ebook to me, which is also disallowed.
Please create a report/support request with links to these threads so they can be reviewed.

If you’re talking about tutoring, such as a java/plugin tutoring service, then it’s important to note that the knowledge is not owned there either. Anyone is free to receive their lessons, and then make posts sharing everything they learned with the rest of the community. The reason tutoring succeeds in spite of this, is because they’re selling the service, not the knowledge; and that service is valuable enough to sustain their business. Specifically, the service they’re offering requires such a firm understanding, and is so difficult to reproduce, that they cannot be replaced by the next person to learn what they know. Understanding a programming language, for instance, is not easily done just by reading a book. Everyone would develop their own questions, and need individually crafted explanations through discussion. That’s what a tutor is offering and selling.

A lot of these are really just methods, renamed into "Guides"

https://www.mc-market.org/search/19172079/?q=Guide&o=relevance

 

[X8.]

Not really because it teaches an actual skill. A method doesn't teach an actual skill.
In the case of "Natural Social Media Growth" it's normally just frequent and relevant content. That isn't a skill.
With a tutoring course, you also get a service from the user teaching you and supporting you through the period you're taking the course.

It is a skill when its a several chapter in depth method, on gaining and growing.

 

[Ally]

You cannot own the knowledge of something, ever.

Patents exist for this reason. So, yes, you can.

But in saying that; "methods" are not patents. So unless your method is patented, I don't see why it should be allowed to be sold here, given that getting a patent grants a number of licences that can be distributed by the patent holder. If your method isn't patented, then it probably isn't worth much (and is subsequently public domain and shouldn't be sold).

Straying away from the patent side of things; the concept of a "method" is consistent with "I can do this, you can do this too so you should trust me enough to pay me!", regardless of maliciousness or other legalities. And if we won't allow cape codes on the basis they're untraceable, methods shouldn't be allowed either: you cannot solidly verify you've gained (or lost) anything from using it.

 

[X8.]

you cannot solidly verify you've gained (or lost) anything from using it.

You can. If you are selling a method per se, a organic growth method. Then you would want the method to actually work, and there would of course be proof and vouches and such involved as well.

 

[Ally]

You can. If you are selling a method per se, a organic growth method. Then you would want the method to actually work, and there would of course be proof and vouches and such involved as well.

Wanting something to work doesn't justify purchasing it. Nor do vouches. There have been cases of people vouching for a product/service, only for that seller to be banned for scamming w/ it.

That being said, what sort of proof could you provide that would demonstrate a direct correlation between improvement/benefits and the method being used?

 

[X8.]

Wanting something to work doesn't justify purchasing it. Nor do vouches. There have been cases of people vouching for a product/service, only for that seller to be banned for scamming w/ it.

That being said, what sort of proof could you provide that would demonstrate a direct correlation between improvement/benefits and the method being used?

In the case of the gain method which I wanted to sell, I would show several clients and recent gain, compared to before using the method.

 

[Mick]

There has been a lot of discussion about adding back some form of ebooks or methods sort of thing in the past, and each time it comes down to the fundamental issue that Justis has brought up in this thread.

Denied, thanks for the suggestion.