Lately I've seen a lot of people use Nulled software for example (WHMCS) I think people who can not show proof that is a valid software if asked should get there thread removed/issued warning points.
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Nulled software should it be allowed
- Thread starter Ring-1
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Personally, I'm not too concerned with nulled XenForo's they are a risk all the same but if it gets backdoored, then a server has its forum trashed, few emails gathered. Its not a catastrophic problem. But nulled WHMCS as you said in the thread is another matter entirely. If people are caught using it, they should have a heavy amount of warning points added. 60+ and here's why:
Nulled software can often contain backdoors that the cracker has added to the software. (Most crackers don't just crack software for people out of the goodness of their hearts. There is something in it for them too.) With WHMCS you are dealing with sensitive information, like peoples name, address, billing information, etc. As well as services like hosting that they are paying for. If the cracker decides to use a backdoor he has planted in your WHMCS he can steal everything. If the cracker has nothing better to do, could delete everything too.
Using nulled software is a huge risk in this case, for both the seller and the customer. Therefore should be discouraged as much as possible.
Nulled software can often contain backdoors that the cracker has added to the software. (Most crackers don't just crack software for people out of the goodness of their hearts. There is something in it for them too.) With WHMCS you are dealing with sensitive information, like peoples name, address, billing information, etc. As well as services like hosting that they are paying for. If the cracker decides to use a backdoor he has planted in your WHMCS he can steal everything. If the cracker has nothing better to do, could delete everything too.
Using nulled software is a huge risk in this case, for both the seller and the customer. Therefore should be discouraged as much as possible.
Personally I would rather use legitimately licensed software for anything I'm working on. Let me ask this though, are you referring to people using nulled software for their own devices, or people selling setups or providing services that are utilizing nulled software?
In the first case I think it would really be the individuals fault if something happened.
In the second, they're not only putting their clients at risk but also violating the law, and potentially causing others to do so without their knowledge or consent. If that's the case they should be dealt with harshly.
In the first case I think it would really be the individuals fault if something happened.
In the second, they're not only putting their clients at risk but also violating the law, and potentially causing others to do so without their knowledge or consent. If that's the case they should be dealt with harshly.
I agree completely, nulled software is a risk for everyone and we should not be distributing it. If people want to get nulled software they can easily go somewhere else but we should keep it off this site as a lot of people will not know the danger of it. If not completely at least show a warning in the thread section saying that it is nulled and that your data could be exposed.
Don't the rules already cover pirated software? I know users who were suspended/banned for distributing illegitimate content.
Just because WHMCS is a billing system and XenForo a forum doesn't make it any better to use the nulled software...
It's almost just as bad as WHMCS. It's still private information and it's not unlikely that the nulled software has a working password grabber. Since most people use the same password for everything, you'd be causing a lot of security issues for your site visitors.
And you call yourself a system admin? k
On topic: Yes, this already disallowed and back when I was admin on here punishments were given for it.
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Fire was just stating what he believed, it isn't fair to bash him over that. I think you, above all people, know there are different levels of experience when it comes to being a system administrator.
WHMCS is more of a target for backdoors due to the nature of its purpose. If you do a quick google search for "Nulled WHMCS" most results are dodgy sites, which should be avoided.
Some nulled XenForo sites are complete forums dedicated to that, with a full community. There is one site I have in mind in particular, but I'm not going to mention its name, for obvious reasons. Xenforo is nulled by the staff team that run the site, and its kept afloat by peoples donations. A bit like MCM, they can buy ranks like "VIP" that gives the access to extra stuff. All the add-ons too are nulled by staff, and there are several members with knowledge of XenForo and even the development side of it. With a community of nearly 3,000 people. (They delete inactive people, so would be a lot higher if they didn't) (74 people online at the time of writing this). If there was any backdoors in it, someone would have blown the whistle. There is another forums too, that doesn't just specialise in Xenforo, but works in just the same way as the one I just mentioned, and has 13k members.
I'm not saying using nulled software is completely without risk, but if you goto fairly reputable sites like the ones I've mentioned. There is a greatly reduced risk. Since the crackers get their money though donations instead, and are in a position where if backdoors where found, it could ruin their reputation. After quite some searching on google, I found nothing saying that there are backdoors in their software. With that many users its extremely unlikely there is anything there.
You can say there is still a risk, even when going to reputable sites like this. Which there is. But when isn't there a risk? Even if you get XenForo from the official site, there is a chance there are exploits people can find. Same with addons, same with anything. nulled or not. There is always a risk.
Overall, if you're smart about where you get your software, do some research, and check things though. Instead of getting a copy from some dodgy looking blog. Then you aren't at too much risk.
I understand your opinion differs from mine, which I can understand. You do system administration for a living, and work for large companies, therefore security is your number 1 priority. I'm not, for me its just a hobby, I might go further, and become a professional system administration, once I've got though the next 2 years of uni. I have a years part time experience with system administration, I know and I'm able to do more than quite a lot other people doing system administration here, I've talked and helped a few of them. But I'm still nowhere near at your or D3l3t3d's level of experience yet. Who knows my opinions might change when I am. But for now, I feel as long as security risks are mitigated as much as circumstances will allow, then that's the best that can be done. A researched and carefully picked Xenforo is in my opinion quite safe. But I would draw the line at a billing system like WHMCS.
System administrator experience doesn't have to do with any of this. We're discussing the use of nulled software.
You've just missed my entire point. You're trying to say that using nulled software is not a problem while it is. It doesn't matter what CMS or software it is. If it's hosted publicly, is storing user data and costs money, nulling is not ok. People develop this sort of stuff full time. You're literally stealing money from them.
If you can't afford it, too bad. Plenty of alternatives which work.
Fire's logic is nowhere to be found. "Nulled XenForo is fine. GOD FORBID YOU USE NULLED WHMCS. 60 WARNING POINT PLZ!!". They are both nulled software and completely illegal. If any kind of nulled software is allowed, we might as well become the 2nd HackForums, even then, they don't allow nulled software either lol.
It's okay if you've money, I purchase my software now, but there was a time when I couldn't, therefore I have more understanding for people who do use nulled software. I never said that I encourage or endorse the use of nulled software. If someone is using a nulled copy of WHMCS then people can easily check with their online checker. You can't with XenForo, if the rules change to warn/ban anyone with a server using a nulled copy of Xenforo, there would be problems. At an educated guess I would estimate that a little over half the people here who use Xenforo are using a nulled copy. There would be an influx of some true some false reports of people using a nulled copy. Then trying to get them to provide proof, and dealing with all the cases of saying they were unaware, since someone else set it up, or they bought it from someone else. Or they got a legit license from someone, but can't remember who etc. But it's not your forum now, so none of that would be your responsibility.
As I have discusses in length, the risk of using a nulled Xenforo can be reduced to an almost negligible level. As a user, you should be using a different password for their email as well. This applies for in all cases. You can protect yourself quite easily, which you should be doing so anyway. With WHMCS you are directly entering your credit card details and address as well as other information. There is nothing the user can really do. Therefore I would say WHMCS is a higher risk.
The point of stealing money from a company by using a nulled piece of software depends on the way you look at it. Sometimes it can even help companies. But ill let you look into that yourself, rather than going through it.
There is little point me typing much more, all you've done so far, is use a few cheap insults on me, and make me look as bad as possible when expressing my opinion, I said nothing to try and offend you, I even went as far as complementing you saying you're more experienced than I and tried to understand your opinion best I could. I don't really want to lower myself and retaliate, since this is the suggestions forum, and cluttering the thread with a flame war, wouldn't benefit anyone. If there are any more sarcastic comments you have ready, PM me and we can discuss it further. But here's not the place.
You're missing my point once again... What makes it okay to null XenForo but not WHMCS? It's a legitimate question because you're claiming that members shouldn't be punished for using a nulled XF but they should be punished for using a nulled WHMCS.
You think nulled software is wrong, that's it. Which is fine, a lot of people think that way. It's called binary thinking. However, I don't get to see it like that. I've already stated, that if you're careful, security isn't too much of a problem, so I'll disregard that for now.
I've explained in part in some of the other replies, however ill try and explain it more. "What makes it okay to null XenForo but not WHMCS?". Personally, I don't see anything morally wrong in using a nulled forum, in some cases. Most MC servers are run and made by kids. They are a way of having fun and building up a community. Naturally, they are going to want to make their server the best they possibly can, and getting a XenForo forum, is one of the key things they can do, to make their server the best they can. Usually, they are starting their server with very little money or in some cases nothing. XenForo costs $140.
Which is quite a lot, way out of most peoples price range? Obviously, if you're starting a server and have $100's and are just been tight, or your server is making a considerable amount of money. Then I would think it to be wrong to use a nulled forum. But in most cases, it's just kids having fun online. It might not be necessarily the right thing to do. But I'm happy to ignore it. They aren't doing any harm. In fact, they are technically helping XenForo. A lot of people do use nulled/cracked software, to see what its like. Additionally, XenForo has become the main forum type for any good Minecraft server. The fact that so many are using it, does encourage more to use it, some of those will buy it.
Personally, if I was a developer (Which I might well be in a few years time), and found out kids were using my product without paying but were having fun and making friends while doing so. I would be happier knowing they were doing that, than the loss of some profits. They already, make plenty of money, the loss from a few MC servers isn't going to change much.
So that's why I'm okay with XenForo, now here's why I have a problem with WHMCS. WHMCS is cheaper, you don't need to go out and blow $140. It's $15 a month (Likely even cheaper, if you shop around, and find a reseller). I'm going to use hosting sites as an example for this. Since over 90% of the people here using WHMCS, are from a host of some description.
MC servers you can play on, make posts on their forum, but if they run out of money for hosting, or it all goes wrong. You move on and find another server. If you've donated, and so have a few others, this problem likely wouldn't happen. Since hosting is quite cheap. 2GB host ($4) $1 Webhost is all you need, to keep it afloat. Buycraft has a decent free plan now same with MinecraftMarket. However, with a host, you are entrusting your services with them. Whether that be a VPS, Minecraft server, web hosting etc. If you don't have a significant amount of money behind you, you shouldn't be starting a host, they cost way more than an MC server does) It's way too risky. I'm often lurking in the hosting section. I know better than most people when saying most hosts that start with no money, fail and often just go. No refunds, hosting just stops. Clients often don't even get told. Starting an MC server with no money is okay, but a hosting business is highly risky and is not. Therefore if you are using a nulled WHMCS, you are either tight, which as I said earlier is wrong anyway. Or have very little money, which is just going to lead to problems. Stopping nulled WHMCS will save so many clients trouble later down the line. I feel stopping this kind of host is in everyone's best interest.
I know you and so many others would like to just put a complete ban on nulled software. Which I honestly do understand why. I just feel in some cases it's not that bad. I previously touched on this. But if you decide to completely ban nulled software. There will be a lot of problems.
- There would be a huge influx of reports to staff, of people using nulled forums. Some true so no, they would have to go through them all and try and obtain proof that the person is using a licensed forum.
- If they are using a nulled forum, then what, warn them to ban them. Are they going to remove their forum, just because a staff member on MCM told them to, or just keep getting warning points till they do?
- If you have your own server, what's more, important to you? Your community, or your MCM account? A lot would just take the ban. Server owners are some of the main buyers here, banning a large chunk of them, would make MCM suffer.
- Where do you draw the line? Once you've banned them then what? Do you move onto banning everyone that has an offline / cracked server too. Since they are somewhat encouraging the use of cracked/nulled clients, and people to not buy Minecraft. There is another chunk of server owners gone.
- Maybe warn plugin developers who made plugins like authme, since they are made to help cracked servers. Therefore encouraging the use of cracked/nulled clients.
Putting a complete ban on Nulled software could easily get completely out of control.
My personal opinion is to issue warning points to business that are using nulled software, since they can either afford it or are at a high risk of failing, leaving their customers with the aftermath, when they go under. They are businesses, their primarily objective is to make money. But overlook Minecraft servers, using a nulled forum, since they are often more about the community and fun. They often just spend a lot of the money they make on MCM, buying plugins, builds, maps etc. It might not appear completely fair. Which I guess it isn't. But this is the suggestions forum, that's my opinion. People are free to agree with it, people are free to disagree with it, people are free to post their own opinions. That just happens to be mine.
I haven't read through the whole thread because it seems to just be an off topic argument about software, however as Bosny said we already do not allow nulled software or plugins to be sold or redistributed on MC-Market. If you see someone do it, report it.
Denied, thanks for the suggestion.
Denied, thanks for the suggestion.
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