Problems and Solutions: You might not like it but it is what it is...

[Helloimrex]

This is going to be long, but just read it, everyone's ideas about this subject are important.

Some people are complaining the site is going downhill. Unfortunately, it is. These same people often choose to blame the staff. However, the staff isn't the problem. They are for the most part nice, tolerant, and helpful. A lot more fucking diplomatic than me anyway. But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about what the actual problems are and some solution I think could really benefit everyone. Feel free to suggest your own shit as it might be better than my opinions. The bottom line is something needs to change. Now on to my opinion.


The problem is the culture and setup of the site are the problem. Basically this is the main problem:

There is no assurance that anyone you buy from or sell to isn't a blatant scammer.

Now, why is this a problem? There are a few reasons.


Problems:

1. The site has no mechanism that allows a person to tell the status of a buyer or seller other than hearsay from other members. Sites like Ebay and Upwork have rating systems that are closely monitored and do actually mean shit. You review a person on a deal to deal basis instead of posting that they are a winner on some random thread.

2. "Vouches" are heavily abused. As stated above, they work by saying that someone is a good person and you liked doing business with them in the past. Unfortunately, this is in no way connected to a sale documented by the website. There is no way to tell if a "vouch" is real, someone's friend, or part of the bullshit popularity contest that runs rampant on this site.

3. The bullshit popularity contest. Post enough messages saying the stupid shit 10-15 year-olds love to hear and you will have ratings out the ass. If you have ratings out the ass you are obligated to vouch copies and adopt some mafioso persona where if someone gives you free shit you endorse them but if they don't you rip on them. This extends even into a bias with which reported posts are listened to and which ones are disregarded.

4. The updated rules will be this sites undoing. Specifically, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. If someone is being disrespectful, report their post (rather than starting an argument with them)." . Sure, everyone hates speech that is blatantly hateful and racist and there should be limits. However, this goes a step further as it imposes a blanket that extends to something known as "trashing sales threads". If you say something bad about someone's product, truthful or not, your post might be reported and you might receive a warning depending on how popular the person is you criticized. This is compounded on the bullshit vouches and causes a lot of threads to be full of phony applause with anything else removed. Threads usually get trashed because there is something wrong with the seller or product. Sure, sometimes attacks are on a personal basis, but these can usually be deflected through discussion and brought to light as character attacks. Removal of posts about the integrity of a product inevitably leads to scams. It is as simple as that.


Solutions:

1. Institute a system where each party documents a sale somewhere on the site and reviews are given about that particular sale and nothing else. If people are suspected of abusing what is a sale, ask for some proof a sale took place and if it didn't punish them. This can be regulated just as people trying to get rating boosts are regulated. This way "vouches" are about a specific topic and are much less subjective. Seeing someone's sale history on ebay is actually helpful whereas seeing how many people like on a personal level them is not.

2. Winner doesn't mean the same thing as vouch on the surface just like wearing a ty-dye shirt doesn't mean someone is expressing they like drugs on the surface. Institute a regulated system based on specific sales that gives some rating of 0 to 5 of how good someone is at doing business. Right now the fake vouches mean as much as real ones would to people and it causes a fuckload of problems. Yeah, it is work, but in the long run many less conflicts will arise because of this.

3. The popularity contest bullshit on this site is bullshit. The current rating system is absolutely useless but everyone pretends it isn't. It facilitates corruption and causes immaturity. Furthermore, 7 of the 9 ratings are often used sarcastically to make fun of others. These still total into someone's rating making the system a complete clusterfuck. This isn't some casual forum. I don't give a fuck if the person I am buying a map from is funny or a winner. I just want my transaction to happen without hiccups. Get rid of it, people put too much stock in it and it is nothing but toxic to the site.

4. Get rid of the bad rule and institute censorship based on defined criteria. Otherwise, even the most unbiased of staff will turn into judgmental fascists. Right now, anything that is not "nice" could be considered against the rules. Fuck that, I want information about the people I'm buying from, not a bunch of endorsed, sugar-coated bullshit.

So will any of this happen? Probably not. Will the site die if it doesn't? IMHO, Probably.

 

[nara~kavi]

I agree with some of your points but as somebody with lots of ratings I like ratings. ^_^

I don't see the harm of them and I think they do have some value on this site, as generally people with over 1000 ratings don't scam. The only people I can think of with over 1000 ratings that have scammed are Jurhed and OGMaster. ^_^

I think people should post their opinions about stuff like this in Rocket's feedback survey as he said that he is going to read through all that and bring it to the attention of staff directly. I think that's your best bet for getting your voice heard. ^_^

 

[Errota]

Hello,

I somewhat agree about the ratings issue but it is almost impossible to resolve. Your solution would require so much work to maintain and even the proof of job/work was completed could be fake and not the real work they did. I will try to think of something.

Kind regards,
Jamie J M
Host-atom.com
MC-Market Moderator

 

[TellingMom]

A lot of these issues are not new. In fact, Pixelbat brought many of them up over a year ago and gave a lot of suggestions and solutions to bring legitimacy to the site. Even offered to code a custom auction style plugin. But he was ultimately banned for being too aggressive/opinionated on the state of MCM. I can't speak for the new management, however, Verringer was very narrow minded and hated suggestion and was pretty much a shut in. If he didn't come up with the idea, it really never came to fruition. It's too bad too, a lot of good people have been banned from MCM for simply having opinions, for better or worse, or Verringer taking criticism or suggestion personal.

 

[Ajdin]

I somewhat agree about the ratings issue but it is almost impossible to resolve.

Why is it impossible to resolve if I may ask?

 

[Errota]

Why is it impossible to resolve if I may ask?

Although we all hate how the ratings have gone there isn't much of a fix we can implement. We are working out hardest to come up with a good solution.

 

[Ajdin]

Although we all hate how the ratings have gone there isn't much of a fix we can implement. We are working out hardest to come up with a good solution.

There's a very possible fix and it's been discussed among the staff before I'm pretty sure.

It's just up to you guys where you want to invest money and where not..

Edit: At this moment, not much is being invested in.

 

[nara~kavi]

I still believe the simplest solution to the ratings issue is simply to separate ratings and vouches, and to rename "Winner" back to "Vouch". Then, staff should just stop really caring about people's ratings and rate-boosting and such, and focus on enforcing people abusing the "Vouch" rating. Have a separate thing under where it says Ratings that says Vouches. Ban people who abuse vouch ratings.

I also would support resetting everyone's vouch ratings when this alteration takes place, to get rid of any unfair boosting or stuff like that that took place in the past. But this would piss off a lot of people so maybe not.

Monty & I have been suggesting this ever since before we were rate banned, and people have consistently ignored or opposed this suggestion without giving us much reason as to why.

All that said, I don't really see too much issue with the status quo. People make a big to-do out of ratings when it doesn't matter at all. I don't see why so many people complain about it or want it removed or say it's a big issue - what is the big deal? I feel like this is a problem just because people are making it one.