Remove rule 8.4

[Lightcaster5]

Rule 8.4 should be removed or at least changed. Doing "vouch copies" of small plugin requests was how I got my first few vouches and reps on mcm. It was feb, 2020 when I did this and I made a post today doing the same thing. It was taken down in violation of rule 8.4 (which I was unaware of until now) which is quite disappointing. It is a great way for new members to get the little rep they need to boost their status throughout mcm.

 

[Ally]

8.4 does not cover vouch copies.

8.4 is a feedback system rule. If you're doing your work in exchange rep explicitly, used explicitly as payment (e.g. "I do work, you give me rep as payment" or "if you don't rep me then I won't do the work") then it is covered under that.

You gain reputation by asking; vouch copies are returned as vouches on threads or profiles and you can subsequently ask a person to give you reputation but you cannot force them to do so as part of the exchange.

Removal of that rule would allow people to also blackmail via reputation.

 

[Ivan.]

8.4 does not cover vouch copies.

8.4 is a feedback system rule. If you're doing your work in exchange rep explicitly, used explicitly as payment (e.g. "I do work, you give me rep as payment" or "if you don't rep me then I won't do the work") then it is covered under that.

You gain reputation by asking; vouch copies are returned as vouches on threads or profiles and you can subsequently ask a person to give you reputation but you cannot force them to do so as part of the exchange.

Removal of that rule would allow people to also blackmail via reputation.

Freelancers should be able to do services in exchange for items or vouches, and get something worthwhile for their hard work. +1

 

[Ally]

items or vouches

Where does it say you can't do deals for items or vouches? Because you seem to be misconstruing the rule.

You can do deals for vouches - vouch copies. There is nothing against that. You can do deals for items. Nothing against that either. The rule 8.4 protects against feedback abuse. Feedback is not a currency and nor should it be. 8.4 also protects against feedback blackmail or feedback threats. What about deals like, in addition to money, someone will only make you a product if "you rep me as well even if you don't like it"? Because that's the sort of thing you'd be allowing.

It's not hard at all to ask for a feedback proceeding the deal. It's not. In fact, I'd argue it's better business practice and more courteous in general. It's not against the rules either. But allowing people to force feedback as a currency or allowing feedback blackmail or threats is a completely stupid idea; and that's exactly what you'd be encouraging by having 8.4 removed.

The OP of this thread seems to take issue with the fact they're not allowed to force people who are given vouch copies to rep them instead of vouching for them. All I have to say is get over it. If they want to give you one they can. Hell it's in the name, vouch. Just ask. Most people will actually do so if you ask at the time.

 

[Lightcaster5]

Where does it say you can't do deals for items or vouches? Because you seem to be misconstruing the rule.

You can do deals for vouches - vouch copies. There is nothing against that. You can do deals for items. Nothing against that either. The rule 8.4 protects against feedback abuse. Feedback is not a currency and nor should it be. 8.4 also protects against feedback blackmail or feedback threats. What about deals like, in addition to money, someone will only make you a product if "you rep me as well even if you don't like it"? Because that's the sort of thing you'd be allowing.

It's not hard at all to ask for a feedback proceeding the deal. It's not. In fact, I'd argue it's better business practice and more courteous in general. It's not against the rules either. But allowing people to force feedback as a currency or allowing feedback blackmail or threats is a completely stupid idea; and that's exactly what you'd be encouraging by having 8.4 removed.

The OP of this thread seems to take issue with the fact they're not allowed to force people who are given vouch copies to rep them instead of vouching for them. All I have to say is get over it. If they want to give you one they can. Hell it's in the name, vouch. Just ask. Most people will actually do so if you ask at the time.

I had no intention of forcing another user to vouch, I had a problem that they pretty much lied to me. They requested one of my services through MCM without telling me the status of their account. Vouch or no vouch, I'm happy to make a simple plugin if it helps someone. Vouch or no vouch, I'm not gonna be happy when someone who is suspended tries to pull the same stuff.

 

[Mick]

I had no intention of forcing another user to vouch, I had a problem that they pretty much lied to me. They requested one of my services through MCM without telling me the status of their account. Vouch or no vouch, I'm happy to make a simple plugin if it helps someone. Vouch or no vouch, I'm not gonna be happy when someone who is suspended tries to pull the same stuff.

It's always smart to check who you're dealing with before you do a deal, and in this situation doing so would have avoided this issue. Removing 8.4 would mean that our reputation can be used as payment in a transaction, which would be detrimental to the validity of feedback given through our system. Vouch copies are still allowed because you're essentially doing work for free with the hope of receiving a positive review, but we're never going to allow requiring it.

Denied, thanks for the suggestion