Remove total ratings and post count

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Justis

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Members' profiles should not display the total amount of ratings they've received, nor posts they've made.
This is unnecessary; and is often being mistaken as reputation.

The whole reason people try rate boosting and post farming is to build up that count.
Because other members of the forums are stupid enough to use it as basis for determining how trustworthy a member must be.

Ratings are meant only to gauge the community's reaction to a specific post.
One single post. It's counterproductive to count them.

People make alternate accounts and give each of their posts a like because when you count them all up, it makes it mean something; it makes a difference.
But a single like on a single post means little to nothing, so removing the totals will discourage alt accounting.
It will also discourage users from trusting people just because of their rate count; since a total would no longer be available.

Removing the total post count will also discourage users from post farming.
No longer will people say "Almost at 200!!!" and then go on every other guy's account thread and say "Glws", being so proud of themselves now that they've got more ratings, and are to be considered "a more reputable member of the community".

Members of MCM should be judged based off each individual post that they make.
As well as the constructive feedback of the people who've dealt with them. Positive and negative.
This will be made possible with the introduction of the new feedback feature.

I believe removing the totals will clean up our site immensely. Greatly improve the currently corrupt system; and move us in the right direction as a forum and as a community.

Anxious for your thoughts.

(If you disagree, please post a reply explaining why this is. Otherwise I'll just assume you're voting thoughtlessly)
 
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nara~kavi

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When you set goals...
You do anything to achieve them.
This is why the rating system is abused, why post count is abused....

And why idiots in school have A's and work as McDonalds employees for the rest of their lives while those who actually have something to contribute go on to change the world.

These totals.. Grades in school, they mean little in what a human can and does bring to the world, as well as these forums.
I hate seeing people judge their own worth off of them.


Ivain, thebaum64.
Ratings have very little to do with how active you are.
One can easily acquire more ratings in just a few hours of spamming around the forums than someone who spends days in shoutbox or private messaging customers or people offering services, making giveaways or being active in rating/message disabled general discussion/support forums.



Let me stop you right there...
Because that is the source of the problem.
Nobody should be working towards ratings or post count. This does not determine your worth to the site, your worth you yourself, your ability to be trusted, nothing."

I expected to get a lot of hate on this suggestion from people who have been constantly trying to build up their ratings and posts... Get on those "Notable members" lists...
And be respected by the community. By two simple numbers...
Instead of by the individual content.

This selfish community attitude will never change if we don't.

People can work towards whatever they want. You don't get to evaluate what people view as their worth and what people don't. People like working towards having a high post count or high ratings, and yeah, they may do toxic stuff to achieve it, but generally earning ratings is something that requires contributing to the community in a positive way. People on the notable members list have generally earned their spot on that list. Everyone knows who Kman, Doge, Style, etc are and that they are excellent members of the community. While I don't think post count alone should be a gauge of quality, it is representative (generally speaking, outside of people like Cow) of someone who has invested a lot of time into this community. Generally, if someone has invested a lot of time into something, they're less likely to just throw it away in order to scam someone. And also generally speaking, if someone invests a lot of time into something then there is usually some sort of reward for that.

All doing what you are suggesting would accomplish is pissing everyone on this forum off and tearing down people's accomplishments and the things that they have worked hard to establish on this website.

And why would you simultaneously be making a thread suggesting a rating while asking for ratings to be removed?

I don't know what you are trying to do here other than make everyone angry. Just stop.
 

Justis

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montyburly
Everyone wants to do things "The fast way", and providing this "fast way" of determining a person's reliability is just another reason why the community's general attitude sucks right now.
Yes, I want to change the community.
But no I don't intend to "ruin" anything.
That's why I made the suggestion thread.
That's why I'm asking for your guys' opinions.
 

nara~kavi

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montyburly
Everyone wants to do things "The fast way", and providing this "fast way" of determining a person's reliability is just another reason why the community's general attitude sucks right now.
Yes, I want to change the community.
But no I don't intend to "ruin" anything.
That's why I made the suggestion thread.
That's why I'm asking for your guys' opinions.

Ratings have been on this site since the beginning, and it has worked fine. Nothing has changed in the past few months. People make a big deal about it and make it out to be a huge issue, but the only issue is people being lazy and retarded and people are going to be lazy and retarded no matter what staff here do or change. There's nothing that can be done to change that or fix that.
 

Ivain

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You really think removing the numbers is going to help, do you? The community will just latch on to the next nearest number to gauge how trustworthy someone is. Which will probably be their date of joining or something similar. makes about as much logical sense as the ratings and posts.

Further question. Why do you believe this ratings equaling reps problem being removed will make the community less selfish? People are on here to make money. And yes, that comes with a selfish attitude. welcome to the business world.
While I'm all for something that makes people act less like actual assholes, I don't think removing the ratings and posts will have the desired effect on that.

To go further with that point (question to general staff), are you prepared to face the riot we all know will happen if ratings and post counts are removed? As you can see by the reaction of many people in this thread, a lot of people are attached to the beyond rationality. As a chatmod, I'm sure you've seen people go balls deep into insanity over the stupidest things. Imagine what the reaction of the worst 10 you've seen in chat will be, and then imagine there are at least 10 non-premium members out there for each premium member you see in chat that shares that opinion. That's the sort of ridiculous riot I'm foreseeing.



oh, one additional thing. The one weakness of this suggestions forum is that a lot of them will be targeting you, justis. I hate that fact as much as you do, but we can't deny it's true. you're not exactly the most popular chatmod, for reasons I don't pretend to know or care about. this won't improve that. I don;t know if you care, but I just thought I'd remind you of the idiotic things this community is capable of.
 

Justis

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And why would you simultaneously be making a thread suggesting a rating while asking for ratings to be removed?

I don't know what you are trying to do here other than make everyone angry. Just stop.
I don't want ratings to be removed, nara.
I said that.

Ratings are meant to guage the community's reaction to individual posts.
That's great! Love me some ratings.

I want to remove the totals.
Totals as a goal is hurting the community.
 

nara~kavi

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I don't want ratings to be removed, nara.
I said that.

Ratings are meant to guage the community's reaction to individual posts.
That's great! Love me some ratings.

I want to remove the totals.
Totals as a goal is hurting the community.

I don't think it is hurting the community at all. If someone wants to be more active on the site or make posts that get ratings in order to increase their totals then more power to them. This forum feels dead lately in comparison to how it used to be and I think that is the real problem this site faces, not ratings. Removing the goals that people aspire to would only serve to make this forum even more dead. If people don't feel like they're earning anything by posting, being active, or contributing, then they probably just won't do it. Because that's the way the minds of children work, and this site is both operated by and filled to the brim with children.

I myself would be extremely frustrated if the ratings and post count that I have obtained through my high activity on the website and dealings with tons of people were random and arbitrarily removed, and I know a lot of members on this site would feel exactly the same as me. So your idea is not possible at all, because generally speaking, pissing off all of the members of the site is not something that is a good idea in business terms.
 

mothh

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Remove ratings all together and get a reputation plugin instead.
 

Justis

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You really think removing the numbers is going to help, do you? The community will just latch on to the next nearest number to gauge how trustworthy someone is. Which will probably be their date of joining or something similar. makes about as much logical sense as the ratings and posts.

Further question. Why do you believe this ratings equaling reps problem being removed will make the community less selfish? People are on here to make money. And yes, that comes with a selfish attitude. welcome to the business world.
While I'm all for something that makes people act less like actual assholes, I don't think removing the ratings and posts will have the desired effect on that.

To go further with that point (question to general staff), are you prepared to face the riot we all know will happen if ratings and post counts are removed? As you can see by the reaction of many people in this thread, a lot of people are attached to the beyond rationality. As a chatmod, I'm sure you've seen people go balls deep into insanity over the stupidest things. Imagine what the reaction of the worst 10 you've seen in chat will be, and then imagine there are at least 10 non-premium members out there for each premium member you see in chat that shares that opinion. That's the sort of ridiculous riot I'm foreseeing.



oh, one additional thing. The one weakness of this suggestions forum is that a lot of them will be targeting you, justis. I hate that fact as much as you do, but we can't deny it's true. you're not exactly the most popular chatmod, for reasons I don't pretend to know or care about. this won't improve that. I don;t know if you care, but I just thought I'd remind you of the idiotic things this community is capable of.
I prefer to remain optimistic that someone's join by date would never be considered for determining how reputable you are... That's nonsensical.
And I can think of no other public numbers that are displayed except maybe your age.
That's not an option either; everyone knows people lie.

As for making the community less selfish, that's more of a side-effect I'm just really hoping for.
People post for the sake of increasing their numbers, therefor benefitting themselves.
If we remove that motivation; and leave ratings to only individual posts, I hope to see a lot less spam, and a more meaningful posts.
Because users would only feel the need to post when they care about what they're posting.
Right now, people value every single post they make because it increases their numbers.
That's the wrong reason to care about what you're contributing to the community.

Oh, yeah, lashback.
I'm not scared of it.
If people want to hate me because of my own opinions, and for making a suggestion, that's fine.
That's not a reasonable reason to hate anyone, and I won't acknowledge that hate.

And might I just add...
If they are removed... It won't be because I suggested it.

People calm down though...
Eventually, people can get used to any system put before them.
Humans are very adaptable creatures.

I agree because I told you this in shoutbox, but didn't have the time to make a suggestion. Thanks for the credit -__-
I actually brought this up with other members of the site in a heated argument on Slack weeks ago.
You just reminded me. ;)

GUYS, COREY REMINDED ME. GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR REMINDING.
There you go pal. <3
 

Zeiyon

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What exactly would removing ratings solve? You're saying that people should research the members they buy from/sell to before they make transactions, and determine whether they're trustworthy or not based on that, right? Well, if people are too lazy to do that now what makes you think they'll do that if ratings are removed? Removing them would just make scamming easier because people won't have anything at all to use to quickly make opinions about members.

I don't care if you say ratings aren't rep. They're rep to tons of people on the site, including me. Just because you don't consider them rep doesn't mean you have to go ruining it for everyone else. If I want to base deals I make on how many ratings someone has, I can. That choice does not affect you or anyone else on the site. It is my business alone and there's no reason you need to ruin that for me and everyone else who feels this way.
So basically you worked towards your ratings to brag to others?
 

SoldierAlex

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Interesting thread, I've had the same idea ever since I made a music forums using Xenforo. I realized that it takes the click of a button to make ratings uncounted. I think this an amazing thread by Justis. Thanks for the tag and kinds words Deep and Ivain.
 

thebaum64

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When you set goals...
You do anything to achieve them.
This is why the rating system is abused, why post count is abused....

And why idiots in school have A's and work as McDonalds employees for the rest of their lives while those who actually have something to contribute go on to change the world.

These totals.. Grades in school, they mean little in what a human can and does bring to the world, as well as these forums.
I hate seeing people judge their own worth off of them.


Ivain, thebaum64.
Ratings have very little to do with how active you are.
One can easily acquire more ratings in just a few hours of spamming around the forums than someone who spends days in shoutbox or private messaging customers or people offering services, making giveaways or being active in rating/message disabled general discussion/support forums.



Let me stop you right there...
Because that is the source of the problem.
Nobody should be working towards ratings or post count. This does not determine your worth to the site, your worth you yourself, your ability to be trusted, nothing."

I expected to get a lot of hate on this suggestion from people who have been constantly trying to build up their ratings and posts... Get on those "Notable members" lists...
Those who think those two numbers determines whether or not they are respected by the community... Like the numbers make a difference...
Instead of by the individual content.

This selfish community attitude will never change if we don't.
Let go of your numbers. -.- Be free.
Its not being selfish, that is your opinion. And post count and ratings DO show activity. The most active people on here have a lot of posts and ratings, I am not sure how that is not clear to you, the only exception to that is some staff as we dont post as often because we are doing reports, looking at the sb, etc. Ratings have been on so many sites I can not even count, and I tell you what, the ones where they get rid of them, dont do so hot. I was a member of an Xbox Modding forum, still am, and that site went down hill in new members and activity because they removed post count from the profiles beside posts as well as likes and such. That community has now re-done their site gave ratings back and is slowly making it back. In all honesty, removing them is nothing but made idea.

For one, removing ratings will promote bad behavior. Such as if someone wants to agree, they cant put an agree rating, so they put "I agree" "+1" etc. Which is in fact shit posting which break our own rules. Same when people like things, the will say i like this and a lot will, which makes things spammy.

Ratings and post count adds a sense of fun, ok? It gives members something to achieve. I am telling you removing this will not end well, people will be upset, people will shit post, there will be less quality. Even if you think "Oh there will be less shit posying as there is nothing to count up posts" your wrong. I know this from the xbox site I was talking about before. The site was basically dead until they added it back. I do not want that to happen here. I want this site to do well. I love this site and community and I wont let this fall like other sites.
 

Justis

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Its not being selfish, that is your opinion. And post count and ratings DO show activity. The most active people on here have a lot of posts and ratings, I am not sure how that is not clear to you, the only exception to that is some staff as we dont post as often because we are doing reports, looking at the sb, etc. Ratings have been on so many sites I can not even count, and I tell you what, the ones where they get rid of them, dont do so hot. I was a member of an Xbox Modding forum, still am, and that site went down hill in new members and activity because they removed post count from the profiles beside posts as well as likes and such. That community has now re-done their site gave ratings back and is slowly making it back. In all honesty, removing them is nothing but made idea.

For one, removing ratings will promote bad behavior. Such as if someone wants to agree, they cant put an agree rating, so they put "I agree" "+1" etc. Which is in fact shit posting which break our own rules. Same when people like things, the will say i like this and a lot will, which makes things spammy.

Ratings and post count adds a sense of fun, ok? It gives members something to achieve. I am telling you removing this will not end well, people will be upset, people will shit post, there will be less quality. Even if you think "Oh there will be less shit posying as there is nothing to count up posts" your wrong. I know this from the xbox site I was talking about before. The site was basically dead until they added it back. I do not want that to happen here. I want this site to do well. I love this site and community and I wont let this fall like other sites.
I just explained why it doesn't show activity.
Staff was just a single example out of, like, five.

Hello? I said remove the totals.
Not remove ratings.
I just explained this to nara.
So yes, people CAN rate posts "Agree" and no, they would not have to post "I agree" and "+1".

Also, I don't really care to hear about this xBox site that has nothing to do with MCM.
I've never heard of it, and you have no evidence that removing the post total had any correlation to the site's decline in popularity.
I could just as easily claim a similar case but in support of my suggestion.
 

thebaum64

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I just explained why it doesn't show activity.
Staff was just a single example out of, like, five.

Hello? I said remove the totals.
Not remove ratings.
I just explained this to nara.
So yes, people CAN rate posts "Agree" and no, they would not have to post "I agree" and "+1".

Also, I don't really care to hear about this xBox site that has nothing to do with MCM.
I've never heard of it, and you have no evidence that removing the post total had any correlation to the site's decline in popularity.
I could just as easily claim a similar case but in support of my suggestion.
The site has a ton to do with this situation, It is a forum and so is this. Forums as a whole relate to this and why would I lie about a site I have been a member of since like 2012-2013? I just got done explaining how I cared about this site and I want it to do well your accusing me of lying. Also, you said that it would not effect ratings? Then why is that an option in the poll...?
http://prntscr.com/a7i5lt
and clearly the voting shows how people feel.
 

Justis

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The site has a ton to do with this situation, It is a forum and so is this. Forums as a whole relate to this and why would I lie about a site I have been a member of since like 2012-2013? I just got done explaining how I cared about this site and I want it to do well your accusing me of lying. Also, you said that it would not effect ratings? Then why is that an option in the poll...?
http://prntscr.com/a7i5lt
and clearly the voting shows how people feel.
You don't have to be lying to not be telling the truth...
It's quite possible you believe that there was a correlation between your site's decline, and the ratings being removed, however that doesn't mean that it was the cause.
You have no proof of that, and it could easily be a coincidence.

"Remove rating and post count"
Means remove the rating count and remove the post count.
It does not mean remove ratingS and remove post count.
That would be ridiculous.
Everyone but you and nara seemed to understand that.

Also, yes I see the results of the poll.

19 votes in favor in some way, and 21 votes against.
It's close to a tie.
And yes, I think it's fair to consider the fact that the supporting votes got split up into three categories whilst the apposing votes are focused into one.
I'd also like to point out that a majority of the people replying to this thread have been in support of it.
Only a few people have spoken out, though they have spoken out hard.
 
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