Required reactions for shop threads

[TheLightDev]

Hello MCM,


I am here to bring a suggestion to prevent scamming from new low rep members. It has come to our attention that there are many people who literally join the site and make a shop and this has caused much drama with those people being “exposed” and “banned” on mcm. My suggestion to the staff of mcm is to make a new rule which will state that you need a certain amount of reputation to post a shop. This alone will stop many scammers from scamming on the site.


I/the web developers of MCM do not want to stifle new members from joining, and starting their own business. We simple wish that our profession and many others to be respected and continue its good name. We hope this new measure reduces scamming and forces new members to create their own portfolio, instead of expecting work with no evidence. I hope you take this into consideration due to it has become a huge topic within our group.


Kind Regards,


TheLightDev / Explodified

 

[Primal Power]

Won't this start a ton of post farming and/or reputation farming?

 

[Wvisoecj]

Won't this start a ton of post farming and/or reputation farming?

It happens already, nothing can be done about it. Yes it could start more of that.

 

[SoldierAlex]

Ehh, I disagree. This is a marketplace, where everyone exchanges money and goods. Why wouldn't they allow them to sell something? Especially since that's the main reason most people are on this site for anyways. It's common knowledge to be cautious with brand new users or anyone in general.

 

[Lacroix]

Ehh, I disagree. This is a marketplace, where everyone exchanges money and goods. Why wouldn't they allow them to sell something? Especially since that's the main reason most people are on this site for anyways. It's common knowledge to be cautious with brand new users or anyone in general.

Agreed!

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

Ehh, I disagree. This is a marketplace, where everyone exchanges money and goods. Why wouldn't they allow them to sell something? Especially since that's the main reason most people are on this site for anyways. It's common knowledge to be cautious with brand new users or anyone in general.

when there's dozens of new and alting members creating accounts and within minutes have a shop up trying to sell shit just to scam people, I have to disagree. Just like in the real world, there are restrictions, rules, and requirements for selling things/running a shop. Adding requirements on mcm wouldn't be hurting anything.

 

[SoldierAlex]

when there's dozens of new and alting members creating accounts and within minutes have a shop up trying to sell shit just to scam people, I have to disagree. Just like in the real world, there are restrictions, rules, and requirements for selling things/running a shop. Adding requirements on mcm wouldn't be hurting anything.

Do you know why John D. Rockefeller is the richest man ever to live. He bought every smaller railroad company that someone tried starting up. He was essentially a bully, that's what this suggestion will bring. A few popular shops up at the top and there won't be many smaller guys who are aspiring artists or developers.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

Do you know why John D. Rockefeller is the richest man ever to live. He bought every smaller railroad company that someone tried starting up. He was essentially a bully, that's what this suggestion will bring. A few popular shops up at the top and there won't be many smaller guys who are aspiring artists or developers.

So I'm assuming you didn't read the post. This post is in NO WAY trying to push new developers/designers/shops away and/or discourage them from making a shop and selling their goods. If you try to make a shop in real life you have a lot of restrictions and hoops to jump through. Adding small restrictions to mcm would in no way negatively affect anything, and it would reduce the amount of people who make accounts and start shops in a matter of minutes in an attempt to scam someone. Your analogy of a successful person/company buying out smaller ones to be the only one remaining is in no way relevant to putting restrictions on mcm shops.

 

[SoldierAlex]

So I'm assuming you didn't read the post. This post is in NO WAY trying to push new developers/designers/shops away and/or discourage them from making a shop and selling their goods. If you try to make a shop in real life you have a lot of restrictions and hoops to jump through. Adding small restrictions to mcm would in no way negatively affect anything, and it would reduce the amount of people who make accounts and start shops in a matter of minutes in an attempt to scam someone. You analogy of a successful person/company buying out smaller ones to be the only one remaining is in no way relevant to putting restrictions on mcm shops.

Oh, I read the thread, alright. It clearly wants new members disallowed from making shops. (I'm assuming these are threads where services are offered). In real life, there aren't "restrictions" like this one. You get a permit depending on what type of business you're trying to run and the rest has to do with how much money you have. The analogy is very accurate. Although, the guys who have successful businesses on here don't actively do anything to stop anyone who is brand new, they would drive them away with this rule implemented. Another thing to consider is, just how new do they have to be considered not worthy enough of creating their own shop.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

Oh, I read the thread, alright. It clearly wants new members disallowed from making shops. (I'm assuming these are threads where services are offered). In real life, there aren't "restrictions" like this one. You get a permit depending on what type of business you're trying to run and the rest has to do with how much money you have. The analogy is very accurate. Although, the guys who have successful businesses on here don't actively do anything to stop anyone who is brand new, they would drive them away with this rule implemented. Another thing to consider is, just how new do they have to be considered not worthy enough of creating their own shop.

This post does NOT "clearly wants new members disallowed from making shops". It wants new members to have restrictions on making shops. If you haven't noticed, every day there's countless members joining and making shops/service threads, and more than half of them are banned by the day's end due to alting. Give it a week, and a few more are banned due to scamming. Most people who do that make new accounts because they can almost instantly make a shop and scam. If there was, let's say, a mandatory waiting period, a minimum post/reaction limit, etc.., most people that are in a hurry to scam at the snap of a finger would not do so. The analogy is NOT relevant. You are comparing two different things. The successful devs/shop owners on mcm do NOT want to drive away new users, they want to drive away scammers and alters.

 

[Wvisoecj]

This post does NOT "clearly wants new members disallowed from making shops". It wants new members to have restrictions on making shops. If you haven't noticed, every day there's countless members joining and making shops/service threads, and more than half of them are banned by the day's end due to alting. Give it a week, and a few more are banned due to scamming. Most people who do that make new accounts because they can almost instantly make a shop and scam. If there was, let's say, a mandatory waiting period, a minimum post/reaction limit, etc.., most people that are in a hurry to scam at the snap of a finger would not do so. The analogy is NOT relevant. You are comparing two different things. The successful devs/shop owners on mcm do NOT want to drive away new users, they want to drive away scammers and alters.

Another reason this happens so much is because the forum is filled with lowballers who won't pay a dime for actual work. When a new member comes up offering $5 for custom designs everyone jumps on board then gets scammed.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

Another reason this happens so much is because the forum is filled with lowballers who won't pay a dime for actual work. When a new member comes up offering $5 for custom designs everyone jumps on board then gets scammed.

agree. I can name off at least 5 active users who lowball the fuck out of devs trying their hardest to be "successful" and get legitimate work done.

 

[SoldierAlex]

This post does NOT "clearly wants new members disallowed from making shops". It wants new members to have restrictions on making shops. If you haven't noticed, every day there's countless members joining and making shops/service threads, and more than half of them are banned by the day's end due to alting. Give it a week, and a few more are banned due to scamming. Most people who do that make new accounts because they can almost instantly make a shop and scam. If there was, let's say, a mandatory waiting period, a minimum post/reaction limit, etc.., most people that are in a hurry to scam at the snap of a finger would not do so. The analogy is NOT relevant. You are comparing two different things. The successful devs/shop owners on mcm do NOT want to drive away new users, they want to drive away scammers and alters.

"My suggestion to the staff of mcm is to make a new rule which will state that you need a certain amount of reputation to post a shop." He clearly doesn't want new members posting shops. There's always going to be those who ban evade but why should all new members have these restrictions. New members are already constantly getting "no rep, gtfo" or "lol no rep". I have absolutely no idea why people hate new members so much. I remember when I was new, I felt very welcomed and no one called me a scammer or a no rep.

 

[Wvisoecj]

"My suggestion to the staff of mcm is to make a new rule which will state that you need a certain amount of reputation to post a shop." He clearly doesn't want new members posting shops. There's always going to be those who ban evade but why should all new members have these restrictions. New members are already constantly getting "no rep, gtfo" or "lol no rep". I have absolutely no idea why people hate new members so much. I remember when I was new, I felt very welcomed and no one called me a scammer or a no rep.

Because it's the internet and you can't believe what everyone says? I don't see your point here. Ask your parents about safety on the internet.

 

[lAkjtzAZ0]

"My suggestion to the staff of mcm is to make a new rule which will state that you need a certain amount of reputation to post a shop." He clearly doesn't want new members posting shops. There's always going to be those who ban evade but why should all new members have these restrictions. New members are already constantly getting "no rep, gtfo" or "lol no rep". I have absolutely no idea why people hate new members so much. I remember when I was new, I felt very welcomed and no one called me a scammer or a no rep.

people don't call every new member a scammer and say "gtfo no rep". They do that when new members have shitty threads, give ABSOLUTELY ZERO INFORMATION, and expect people to just go along with it. "I'm doing hosting, pm me for info". Threads that say that shit deserve hate. It's common sense that that's a ridiculous thread and should not be posted at all.

 

[Ivain]

How to encourage reaction farming 101: This suggestion.
I'm sorry but this will not be effective. Say we set required reactions at 100 or something. People will simply start boosting each other or farming reactions until they reach it.
We're already risking post and reaction farming with the few requirements we have for certain sections.

I see no reason why we should stop new members from making shops this way, in all but the already blocked sections.
Just because someone is a new member does not mean they are a scammer.
Example: the builds section contains a lot of people that, in the building community, are very big names. Yet they don't have more than a handful of posts or reactions, since they're just maintaining one or two shop threads.
Nor will this prevent scamming. All it will achieve is to make people farm reactions until they can make a shop thread.

The way to prevent scamming in all sections that have not already been restricted is not to restrict them. It is to teach people how to not get scammed, which I've been trying with limited success for more than a year now.

Let's give another example. Let's say I'm a known scammer who was already banned from the site. Let's say I require 20 reactions to make a shop thread on my new, VPN-using account. All I'll need to do is post some sort of retarded video in general discussion or off-topic a few times, get some likes and winners from that, or post something that'll farm agrees. Having been part of the site before, I know where to get those. I can probably message a few of my buddies to help me along.
Boom, 20 reactions, and ready to start scamming if people aren't watching out for it.

On the other hand, let's say I'm someone completely new to the site. Having no idea how reactions work to begin with, I first spend a week floundering before I can achieve anything.

We currently have a double reputation system. The trade feedback, which we're still learning to use, and the vouch system. If it is a site-wide norm that people without a significant amount of those are required of prove ownership of the product they're selling, this already solves the same problem without encouraging reaction-farming in the least.

 

[Marth]

People join this community solely for the purpose of making a shop. Its not fair if a rule is imposed on everyone, just for the potential actions of a few members. Remember when your teacher gave detention to the whole class, because one student screwed around with the substitute the day before? Well, If you want to save time, just recruit a couple staff members to speed things up on here. It's their job. Hope I helped!

 

[Ajdin]

It happens already, nothing can be done about it. Yes it could start more of that.

Right now it happens, yes. But after all it's just a number with no meaning whatsoever. If we start making it a requirement, it'll be a lot more than just a number. It'll be a requirement you need to have in order to be able to use the forum.

 

[Wvisoecj]

Right now it happens, yes. But after all it's just a number with no meaning whatsoever. If we start making it a requirement, it'll be a lot more than just a number. It'll be a requirement you need to have in order to be able to use the forum.

Although I agree, I think its a small countermeasure that will prevent things like this:
http://www.mc-market.org/threads/137931/#post-1479659