Stop removing banned members rep

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DanSells

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If a user is banned however provides VALID PROOF THAT A DEAL TOOK PLACE in the rep the reputation should not be removed. This is one of the worst rules ive seen on mcm and im sick and tired of my reps being removed. I have had over 50 reps removed because of this dumb rule.
 
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Shizuka

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The proof part is the issue here. Staff isn’t going to individually check all the reputation for proof of the deals.

Neutral for this.
 
Justis

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DanSells said:
If a user is banned however provides VALID PROOF THAT A DEAL TOOK PLACE in the rep the reputation should not be removed. This is one of the worst rules ive seen on mcm and im sick and tired of my reps being removed. I have had over 50 reps removed because of this dumb rule.
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You’ve dealt with over 50 banned users?

There’s already a thread open for this.
https://www.mc-market.org/threads/512088/

Justis R said:
Here’s the original thread I made for it back in 2016: https://www.mc-market.org/threads/160649/
Here’s a recent thread in which I defended the removal of all banned user feedback: https://www.mc-market.org/threads/508725/

The argument is:

1. The reputation system’s entire purpose is to allow users to gauge the community’s collective opinion of a user.
That is why it’s there. That is precisely why it exists, and we make policies and design its features specifically for that purpose.

2. Banned users are no longer members of this community. Thus, in order to function in line with its purpose, non-community members’ opinions, by definition, do not belong within the system.

a) Banned users, having been removed from MCM, do not have the ability to update their feedback for the users they’ve interacted with, should their opinions of our users change. They are completely disconnected from the system, and thus, the feedback which remains, which is supposedly a reflection of their opinions of our users, ceases to serve its purpose as a reflection of their opinions.
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The above statements factually identify a contradiction with the suggestion that banned users’ feedback should stay. The premise clearly violates the purpose of the system.

Some more open to interpretation arguments are as follows:

b) Users are banned because they can no longer be trusted to comply with our policies. Users are able to leave feedback because we entrust in them the responsibility of leaving feedback which accurately represents their opinions at the time. For banned users, who we removed because they proved themselves not having been trustworthy, the feedback they left can also not be trusted to be an accurate reflection of their opinions.


i) Banned users are, by majority, the most observably intolerant of other people, and prior to having been banned, are among the most toxic and willing to abuse a system.

ii) They participate in rule violating behavior which often illicit an inappropriate response, and then leave negative feedback based on that inappropriate response, not for the sake of the community, but for the sake of hurting the image of the user they dislike. Because the user did respond inappropriately, and everyone is entitled an opinion, we cannot deny the toxic user the ability to leave feedback on it, however, if they continue their behavior and prove themselves untrustworthy, they will end up banned. The feedback doesn’t represent interactions with a rule abiding community member, it represents interactions with someone whose behavior has lead them to be banned.

ii) Feedback by banned users are significantly more likely to have been left as a result of policy violations left uncaught, such as “rep for rep” behavior, sharing account access, creating alt accounts, and ban evasion accounts, the latter two make up a significant majority of our banned user-base. Often times, ban evaders will get banned for scamming or other significant violations before they’ve slipped up and made a significant connection to their past banned accounts. The fact that they are banned means these violations will almost certainly go on remaining uncaught. Their feedback needs to be removed to cut out these abuses.
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Few of us enjoy wasting our time in a transaction that doesn’t contribute to our reputation on MCM; and if we do one with the expectation that it will, it’s certainly disappointing to see that feedback get removed. But it doesn’t belong. For the sake of the community and the reliability and stability of our feedback system as a whole, it must be removed.
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asa

asa

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the secret to rep is actually to just not care about your rep
 
Mick

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Justis R said:
You’ve dealt with over 50 banned users?

There’s already a thread open for this.
https://www.mc-market.org/threads/512088/
Click to expand...
As Justis has said, another suggestion thread was already made for this and was denied. We aren't allowing for reputation from banned members to be counted towards the totals because that would mean we'd leave neg reps left by banned members which nobody would like and we need to make our enforcement of both types of feedback equal.

Denied, thanks for the suggestion
 
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