Stop toying around with reputation

[Chearful]

The latest announcement only brings good news to the community to a limited extent. A sale? Cool. Warning expiries being applied retroactively? Perfect - just what we've asked for over the past few years.

But, when it comes to reputation the site is simply shooting itself in the foot.

The reputation system is one of the core parts of the site. It can make (or break) deals. It shows the perceived status a member has in the community compared to others. Since its implementation, it has been removed entirely and then readded. Changes have been made since it was re-added but I would argue many of these are stupid changes which are not what the community desires.

It is not fair on the community - which is what makes MCM the (profitable) site it is - to be subject to what can be described as nothing but a dictatorship regime.

Banned Users
The insane amount of people who objected to having banned member's rep removed is an example. This policy was not announced ANYWHERE on the site (only found out about the policy after asking Mick in private) and yet disgruntled users were mass-reporting other's rep, the receiving party being irritated at best and the user who reported the rep in bulk is allowed to get away with it with no punishment at all. The policy was never fair from the start. A brisk browsing through the accepted/pending suggestions, I have failed to find a suggestion that asks for the removal of banned users' reputation. Even then, it wasn't fair to remove rep from the people who got reported and allow those who didn't suffer from the abuse of the reporting system to have their reputation kept. If the policy was going to be implemented, then it would have been very simple to have automated it in order to achieve fairness in the system. The thing I find most stupid about this whole drama was that the staff team at the time KNEW people would be pissed off when their reputation got deleted and yet they still continued to do so.

The handling of the situation was, and still is, shit. The reverting of this change was important - but it (the policy) should never have happened in the first place. As stated, it was never announced and was only used by other users on the site to annoy their enemies.

Evidence
'Legacy' reputation should be allowed to stay with evidence or not. I don't have time to go through all my reputation and dig up proof for each. I don't think anyone with large rep counts can. Discord accounts get terminated is one scenario where it'd be impossible to find evidence. The reputation system dates back many years. Even the staff handling the feedback reports don't agree with having to provide evidence retroactively, lol.

It's unreasonable and isn't necessary considering all new reps require evidence. Whilst somewhat useful in the very long term, it will significantly hurt users who did deals years ago.

Reputation Reporting
It is very clear that users cannot be trusted with the report functionality of the reputation system. Instead, I propose that all new reputation and edits to reputation must go through an approval process to ensure compliance with the rules and then abolish the report system for reps that have been approved.

Transparency
MCM continues to prove to its community that is incompetent at being transparent despite constant false-hope offered.

Final Words
The key point I have tried to get at across all of these points is that MCM is not acting in the community's interests. The reputation system has fallen victim to constant mismanagement and for such a core feature of the site - it really shouldn't have done. The community is rarely, if ever, consulted on such changes and this needs to change. It should not be about what the administration (which in my opinion are completely isolated from the community itself) wants, but rather what the community wants. For all changes - before they are implemented - I think it is important to consult the community on each change. Hold a poll for each change with simple 'Implement' and 'Do not implement' options and take it from there. It is a waste of both party's time with the implementation of the changes mentioned in this thread. The administration wasted their time implementing it and the community now has to waste their time 'adapting' to such changes. At this point, the best thing that MCM can do is revert the changes to reputation in the latest announcement and leave reputation how it was before it was tampered with.

reinsure wanted this posted on the thread: https://gyazo.com/90aaa8e6783de693789b983b9b3f5375

Deleting of legacy rep puts me at 3 reputation. I was at 170. I lost about 50 to banned members (i.e. down to 120).

 

[Ted]

My 78 rep dropped to 60 rep, and honestly, I'll just lose it all by the due date.. I've got vacation I'm going on and I don't have any time to contact users to update It. The history I've had with mc market through my reputation is now being trashed all because of a bullshit update.. #keeplegacyrep

 

[alice]

So old rep is being removed because it might be "invalid" or "faked". What exactly is stopping new rep from being invalid or faked? What makes the new system THAT much better to warrant removing everyone's rep that some users have been gathering for years?

The new system introduces literally nothing but a 20 second obstacle where you have to include an attachment that's tangentially related to the deal, which can supposedly be anything. Those who have faked rep can still fake rep. It takes nothing to fake a chatlog or include some random attachment, and even for legit, non-faked rep, most people provide don't really provide any solid verifiable "evidence" anyway in my experience.

2 buyers +repped me recently. One included an attachment of the avatar of the account I sold to them, and the other included a picture of the name of the account, neither of which essentially really mean anything or count as any "evidence" if you ask me, since it would take like... 1 minute max to fake.

And yet for some reason, despite how "badly" the staff wants everyone to have valid rep, including a Deal URL is for some reason optional, even though I'd argue a deal URL is far more evidence than an attachment.

 

[Chearful]

So old rep is being removed because it might be "invalid" or "faked". What exactly is stopping new rep from being invalid or faked? What makes the new system THAT much better to warrant removing everyone's rep that some users have been gathering for years?

The new system introduces literally nothing but a 20 second obstacle where you have to include an attachment that's tangentially related to the deal, which can supposedly be anything. Those who have faked rep can still fake rep. It takes nothing to fake a chatlog or include some random attachment, and even for legit, non-faked rep, most people provide don't really provide any solid verifiable "evidence" anyway in my experience.

2 buyers +repped me recently. One included an attachment of the avatar of the account I sold to them, and the other included a picture of the name of the account, neither of which essentially really mean anything or count as any "evidence" if you ask me, since it would take like... 1 minute max to fake.

And yet for some reason, despite how "badly" the staff wants everyone to have valid rep, including a Deal URL is for some reason optional, even though I'd argue a deal URL is far more evidence than an attachment.

Entirely correct. There's no guidelines as to what's classed as evidence or not - nobody really knows what to put on it. It's a rather redundant feature - a nice idea just not fit for purpose in reality.

 

[Blaze.]

So now, instead of using reputation to see if someone's trusted or not, you're gonna have to use how known you are instead because all the rep's being deleted. Thank you Mick, don't think I'll be able to see my birthday pass on this site since it'll be down; unless of course he sells the site to someone with good decision making.

EDIT: Just realized after this blows over, I'll have more rep than Chearful and a lot of other users who are 10x more trusted than me. That's so idiotic and I hope this is fixed.

 

[Arik]

I will end up leaving this site at its current, it gets worse every update. Lots of us [Censored]s from years back will lose a shit ton of our rep that we worked so hard to get. Honestly I want to see what bullshit excuse staff come up with for removing the legacy system. #KEEPLEGACYREP

EDIT:
- Went from 75 rep to 60 rep to 48 rep. For a fact I know all my rep will be basically gone by the end up this.

 

[Polarrr]

+1 lmao

 

[Joshua C]

Not gonna say anything more, but.
I've lost more around 30 rep in the past because some biased reported it.
And I'm going to lose more since the users are banned and even FoundYourFlow !!@#!#

MCM is really taking down its root and thus they say not to promote competitors but actions like this force the whole community to move somewhere where their opinions are actually being heard.

Would be losing more like 8 reps, dropping to the 40's.
I was at 100's before dropping to 60, then 50, and now 40 great work mcm.

You implemented the reputation feature WITHOUT this feature, so its YOUR fault not the member's.
If they dealt with a banned member that doesn't mean the user never dealt with someone legit, or never had a legit rule.
And they are arguing "what if you have a false neg rep and want it remove"? bro fuck it, negative reps should go away when users are banned, but not positive since that shows a good side of us.


forgot to add this BUT
#KEEPLEGACYREPS

 

[Stefatorus]

Reputation is not defined by a couple of entries and reviews of users but spread by word. I have a weak reputation here on mc-market yet many servers over 300 players entrust me with complete access without an issue.

Obviously, I realize that's different from selling accounts, but again, build a reputation using your name, not by asking people to rate you after purchase. Get a good name in the community and you'll get far, on mc-market or otherwise. Relying on some system to provide your clients with the sense of trust your name should provide is just making it harder for you to be able to work independently.

Get a site done, build a portfolio of your past work and prove to people you have no reason to scam, both objectively (not profitable for you to do so) and subjectively (work ethic, etc). That should be enough to prove to people that you are what you say you are.

 

[Bitconnect]

little does mcm know I have 220 or so cracked accounts that can repfuck anyone i want

Well they sure as heck know now...

 

[Sloth]

I can’t comprehend how anyone involved in making this decision thought that removing legacy reputation would be seen as a positive...

 

[FisherGee]

I can’t comprehend how anyone involved in making this decision thought that removing legacy reputation would be seen as a positive...

You didn't see the news?

 

[Mick]

Back about a year ago we introduced some pretty radical changes to the way that we handle reputation. We made all reputation left by banned members be marked as uncounted in your reputation totals and disabled the reporting functionality to reduce abuse and targeted. The changes that we made were certainly controversial at the time, but looking back I'm a firm believer that the changes we made back then were the best that we could have made.

Our reputation system is very far from being perfect in its current state, and we fully recognise that. Since it's introduction we've changed many policies and spent countless hours developing new custom systems, such as disputing feedback.

At the moment we aren't planning to do any more development for our site until we can migrate to XF2. We're also not going to be making any changes to our policies surrounding reputation. Our system is stable at the moment, and making a change now when we're going to be redeveloping everything shortly isn't beneficial. Perhaps once we move to XF2 and have fixed all the bugs that come with that and have more time for some new development and to consider the impact that instituting new policies will result in.

Until then, I'll move this to denied. Once we migrate to XF2 if you feel that this is still relevant please create a new suggestion thread and we can look into it once again. Thank you to everyone for your support and criticism of our systems, it is definitely the best way for us to improve.

Thank you,