The problem with bumping

[Mick]

Howdy folks!

As you know, we've had the ability to bump your threads with the press of a button for many years now. Before this users would reply to their thread with "Bump" which is spammy and annoying to navigate when reading thread replies. The bumping system has never been perfect and since the beginning users have complained that allowing users to bump as many threads as they'd like each day causes problems with drowning out the competition.

For illustration purposes, this is what the Builds products forum regularly looks like:

I don't mean to suggest that what these users are doing is unethical or wrong-- we effectively encourage it with our policies on bumping right now. I think that this is a problem for the builds forum and all other product forums. I knew that this was a problem with product threads already and that introducing resource bumping would likely have a similar outcome, and that's certainly what we've seen already in just the past few days. It's time for us to change our bumping systems for threads and resources, and I have a few ideas for how we can do this.

The main response we've received as a result of the significant bumping issues present on the new site has been "Why bother with resource bumping at all? Switch back to last updated like it used to be". I think that this isn't a solution and has many problems associated with it. Relying on the last updated is problematic because:

1. It encourages authors to release unpolished products so that they get more opportunities to publish fixes to get more exposure
2. Authors update their products with useless and spammy improvements that were done purely to bump their product
3. Graphics, builds, and configs are significantly disadvantaged compared to plugins, setups, bots, and programs since the latter require far more effort to maintain than the former

The bumping system was meant to be a fix for this and I would argue that it is the best solution, but our current implementation needs a minor adjustment made to it in order to discourage mass-bumping. The solution is to make it so that users can bump fewer threads/resources per day, and I have two different options for you:

Option A - 2 bumps per user per section per bump interval​

This option is pretty simple, we limit users to only bump up to 2 threads per forum and 2 resources per category per day (or less time if you have Premium, Supreme, or Ultimate). This would be easier if you offer several different types of services and products since you'd be able to bump several at the same time, but since they'd all be in different sections it'd not lead to poor discoverability for others.​

​

Option B - 1-hour cooldown between bumps​

The purpose of bumping is to make it require effort to get your thread seen again, and the problem with bumping as much content as you'd like per day is that the amount of effort it takes to bump 1 thread is roughly the same as it takes to bump 100 threads since there's no cooldown between bumps. We could remedy this by allowing users to bump far more than just 2 resources/threads per category/forum per day, but with a cooldown of 1 hour between each bump. To clarify, this doesn't mean that you can bump the same thread once per hour (you'll still need to wait the 24 hours between), but you'll have to wait an hour between bumping your Builds product thread before you can bump your Building services thread.​

So what do you think? Do you agree with my perspective of this or do you think that a different strategy should be used instead? Looking forward to hear your response.

Micky

 

[Justis]

Update: The bug where posting a resource update wouldn’t bump it to the top of the overview page with the default 'relevance' filter applied has been fixed.

 

[XER0GRAVITY]

I agree with both ideas, but I think the time intervals and the amount of threads that you should be allowed to bump at once should vary section by section.

An alternative to this might be to limit the amount of active threads you are allowed to have in each section, this feels like a last resort but it would greatly increase the amount of exposure people would be able to get. Just a thought.

 

[Spaceley]

Agree with option A

 

[Polygon]

Spoiler: Message

In my opinion allowing 5 bumps per section per day is far too many and will just leave the exact same problems as before. Switching to 2 bumps per day per section would encourage users to bundle several of their products into a single thread and only bump their best resources, thus making the experience for buyers better.


Progressive cooldowns are an interesting concept, but I do think that allowing up to 5 bumps all within the same hour is too many. If we were to do a system like this I'd rather a system like

First bump
Second bump after 15 minutes
Third bump after 30 minutes
Fourth bump after 1 hour
Fifth bump after 2 hours
Sixth bump after 4 hours
Seventh bump after 8 hours

EDIT: Were you talking about these cooldowns being on a per-section basis or across the entire site?

Personally, I think the progressive bumps are a much nicer system as it allows for the bumps to be spread out and reach a larger audience. With the 2 bumps per day per section, how would this work? If you bumped 1 and then bumped another 12 hours later, would the interval begin from the second bump?

When it comes to having significant amounts of builds e.g. we have over 100 so having 2 per day really means I could only bump 1 build thread and my main thread which is pretty restrictive. I think it should be an interval based system with a maximum per x time period e.g. 5 over 24 hours with time in between.

 

[RyanMood]

I like the idea of Option A.

 

[Kubi Tanaka]

I think A is the best option.

 

[PixelMine]

+1 for option A

 

[Koyere Dev]

In my opinion, both options are still the same, because they will always bump and they will always be able to saturate the categories. There are creators who haven't updated for 6 months and continue to give the bump and those of us who update content, improve and correct bugs, continue to be left behind and those who have many resources will always put bump after bump.

Why not use the old method of bumping when updating? Your staff was aware that it wasn't for promotion, except to their friends, of course, but the point is that this was a reason to improve, innovate and update. Now it is not and it is increasingly disappointing to work with you and even more so with your crystal policies and staff....

 

[Macaw]

Option A seems like the best way to go in my opinion.

 

[KeystoneBuilds]

Howdy folks!

As you know, we've had the ability to bump your threads with the press of a button for many years now. Before this users would reply to their thread with "Bump" which is spammy and annoying to navigate when reading thread replies. The bumping system has never been perfect and since the beginning users have complained that allowing users to bump as many threads as they'd like each day causes problems with drowning out the competition.

For illustration purposes, this is what the Builds products forum regularly looks like:

View attachment 485085

I don't mean to suggest that what these users are doing is unethical or wrong-- we effectively encourage it with our policies on bumping right now. I think that this is a problem for the builds forum and all other product forums. I knew that this was a problem with product threads already and that introducing resource bumping would likely have a similar outcome, and that's certainly what we've seen already in just the past few days. It's time for us to change our bumping systems for threads and resources, and I have a few ideas for how we can do this.

The main response we've received as a result of the significant bumping issues present on the new site has been "Why bother with resource bumping at all? Switch back to last updated like it used to be". I think that this isn't a solution and has many problems associated with it. Relying on the last updated is problematic because:

1. It encourages authors to release unpolished products so that they get more opportunities to publish fixes to get more exposure
2. Authors update their products with useless and spammy improvements that were done purely to bump their product
3. Graphics, builds, and configs are significantly disadvantaged compared to plugins, setups, bots, and programs since the latter require far more effort to maintain than the former

The bumping system was meant to be a fix for this and I would argue that it is the best solution, but our current implementation needs a minor adjustment made to it in order to discourage mass-bumping. The solution is to make it so that users can bump fewer threads/resources per day, and I have two different options for you:

Option A - 2 bumps per user per section per bump interval​

This option is pretty simple, we limit users to only bump up to 2 threads per forum and 2 resources per category per day (or less time if you have Premium, Supreme, or Ultimate). This would be easier if you offer several different types of services and products since you'd be able to bump several at the same time, but since they'd all be in different sections it'd not lead to poor discoverability for others.​

​

Option B - 1-hour cooldown between bumps​

The purpose of bumping is to make it require effort to get your thread seen again, and the problem with bumping as much content as you'd like per day is that the amount of effort it takes to bump 1 thread is roughly the same as it takes to bump 100 threads since there's no cooldown between bumps. We could remedy this by allowing users to bump far more than just 2 resources/threads per category/forum per day, but with a cooldown of 1 hour between each bump. To clarify, this doesn't mean that you can bump the same thread once per hour (you'll still need to wait the 24 hours between), but you'll have to wait an hour between bumping your Builds product thread before you can bump your Building services thread.​

So what do you think? Do you agree with my perspective of this or do you think that a different strategy should be used instead? Looking forward to hear your response.

Micky

I was in favor of option A first, but I would like to adjust it.

To prevent bump spam, you can simply set a limit that each resource can be bumped once a week / month. It's basically a substitute for bumping with an update (updates were usually once a month)

It seems nonsense to have 2 bumps per day when other people just do it too and spam comes back.

 

[MarkElf]

Option A since it results in less spam per section, per person that way.

 

[Luigical]

I understand where you guys are coming from, I think every user should be able to advertise all of their offerings. Making a user choose between threads/resources kinda sucks. Why do we not have it so if there are 3+ it just makes them into a space worth two and Gives a generic message like "Luigical is Offering 7 Services"

My thought process is, more high-quality products are good for the marketplace, not allowing them all to be seen every 24 hours is a disadvantage, that is the entire point of this thread. But this would give us a middle ground between not taking over everything, while still getting all your products to the front page, in some way or another. If not, I am forced to choose between what two products I think are best.

http://luigical.me/images/Screenshot_02_01_XKDjFcDTd8.png

 

[Tini]

I also want to add that the waiting time does not work, it is supposed to be 20 hours for the supreme, but in reality you have to wait a full 24 hours.

I can confirm this, and if that is not going to be fixed then it should be removed from the Account upgrades page instead of promoting something that is not real.

 

[PikaMug]

Option A seems preferable.