Vouches

[Aquaman]

Hey everyone,
I'm Aquaman, and I'm new to MCM so please don't call me a random because I accept the fact that I am one right now


My suggestion to the MC-Market are two new reaction systems.

A Vouch one. Which fixes the fact that everyone spams Vouch on the thread which doesn't trash it. But makes it frustrating for the owner. This will just give a chance
for people who are only buying the product to post. Which cleans threads a lot.

Another one is a GLWS one which could be iconed like the fire
Emoji. This also as above stated. Cleans the forum up a little.


Thanks for reading! Leave your feedback and input down below!
:tup:​

 

[Aquaman]

We need a vouc emoticon 100%

Thank you

 

[Aquaman]

I think winner rating could work as a vouch rating but otherwise, I agree to this suggestion.

Everyone remember to always leave a disagree or agree on the thread.[DOUBLEPOST=1502181892][/DOUBLEPOST]Yeah. With emotions u can do that too. You just click list and it will list who did indeed vouch the player. Instead of scrolling through 10 pages of 'Vouch'

I literally don't see anything frustrating with posting ''vouches'' in a thread, The more vouches in a thread means that it has received quite a good rating from so many players, with a reason of the vouch usually.

 

[Aquaman]

plus it doesn't take you less than a second to read a vouch..

All its doing is one good thing and 2 bad things. And the good thing can be used with this suggestion.

Its bad for peoples
'Recent Activity' page. Since you'll just see half their posts being Vouches.

Its bad for selling your accounts. Because its hard to keep up with the bid.

 

[Aquaman]

I see it as a potentially drop for sales and threads that are selling or buying products
Why? you realize that if someone post a vouch in a thread, it will also bump the thread into the recent posts? I hope you realize if there is an emoticon added it wont get bumped, plus i doubt EVERYONE will be doing the emoticon thingy, prob a couple of people but not every single user.

True.


But this is just a suggestion. In Final release they could make it so it does bump threads.

 

[Ivain]

I think winner rating could work as a vouch rating but otherwise, I agree to this suggestion.

No. absolutely not. This was removed way back when it was still a thing because it made absolutely 0 sense. It took me so much time to make people understand that ratings are absolutely terrible as a form of vouch/reputation. Even now the winner ratings still show up on top of threads.

As for the original suggestion, I would agree with a GLWS reaction icon or something similar, since it's something that's still spammed a lot.
However, vouches should under no condition whatsoever be a reaction. They already were way back, and it was a nightmare. People spam-farming the shit out of them, and then scamming by bludgeoning new members with "I have more vouch ratings than you" until they went first.

This community is obsessed with quantity. Anything that has a quantity count will be farmed like crazy. A reaction has absolutely no value beyond quantity, and quantity is the most meaningless part of any form of reputation system. The current system, though still abused, at least offers the option to make a review/reputation quality as well as adding to the numbers.
Tell me, what has more meaning? 50 members of questionable reputation themselves saying "vouch" (which is practically the same as using the reaction)? Or 10 detailed positive reviews of a service?
In case you can't tell, it's the latter.

Ideally, I'd like a system that does not promote quantity in any way, but that's still under consideration.
Since a vouch rating NOT being reimplemented is way more important than a GLWS being implemented, this totals a disagree.

 

[Aquaman]

No. absolutely not. This was removed way back when it was still a thing because it made absolutely 0 sense. It took me so much time to make people understand that ratings are absolutely terrible as a form of vouch/reputation. Even now the winner ratings still show up on top of threads.

As for the original suggestion, I would agree with a GLWS reaction icon or something similar, since it's something that's still spammed a lot.
However, vouches should under no condition whatsoever be a reaction. They already were way back, and it was a nightmare. People spam-farming the shit out of them, and then scamming by bludgeoning new members with "I have more vouch ratings than you" until they went first.

This community is obsessed with quantity. Anything that has a quantity count will be farmed like crazy. A reaction has absolutely no value beyond quantity, and quantity is the most meaningless part of any form of reputation system. The current system, though still abused, at least offers the option to make a review/reputation quality as well as adding to the numbers.
Tell me, what has more meaning? 50 members of questionable reputation themselves saying "vouch" (which is practically the same as using the reaction)? Or 10 detailed positive reviews of a service?
In case you can't tell, it's the latter.

Ideally, I'd like a system that does not promote quantity in any way, but that's still under consideration.
Since a vouch rating NOT being reimplemented is way more important than a GLWS being implemented, this totals a disagree.

Ok then? I disagree with everything you just said there except the GLWS bit. But its fine I guess

 

[Ivain]

Hey everyone,
I'm Aquaman, and I'm new to MCM so please don't call me a random because I accept the fact that I am one right now


My suggestion to the MC-Market are two new reaction systems.

A Vouch one. Which fixes the fact that everyone spams Vouch on the thread which doesn't trash it. But makes it frustrating for the owner. This will just give a chance
for people who are only buying the product to post. Which cleans threads a lot.

Another one is a GLWS one which could be iconed like the fire
Emoji. This also as above stated. Cleans the forum up a little.


Thanks for reading! Leave your feedback and input down below!
:tup:​

The ENTIRE POINT of 'vouches' is to offer people the opportunity to give a detailed review. That there's a bunch of shits not doing this is their problem.

What you're essentially saying is that you want to replace something like Ebay's or Steam's review system with a like/upvote, and judge someone's reliability by the number of upvotes. Why do you want to do it? Because it inconveniences you to scroll through the reviews.
That is in essence what you're saying. Do you know what's also inconvenient? losing $50+ to a scam by a guy with a crapload of farmed reactions, because you decided to trust him on numbers, not other people's experience

 

[Aquaman]

The ENTIRE POINT of 'vouches' is to offer people the opportunity to give a detailed review. That there's a bunch of shits not doing this is their problem.

What you're essentially saying is that you want to replace something like Ebay's or Steam's review system with a like/upvote, and judge someone's reliability by the number of upvotes. Why do you want to do it? Because it inconveniences you to scroll through the reviews.
That is in essence what you're saying. Do you know what's also inconvenient? losing $50+ to a scam by a guy with a crapload of farmed reactions, because you decided to trust him on numbers, not other people's experience

I understand the bit where you say that you need an explanation for vouches. But you make no sense because half the peoples explanations are just 'VOUCH FOR MY HUBBY BUBBY' and stuff like that.[DOUBLEPOST=1502183743][/DOUBLEPOST]

The ENTIRE POINT of 'vouches' is to offer people the opportunity to give a detailed review. That there's a bunch of shits not doing this is their problem.

What you're essentially saying is that you want to replace something like Ebay's or Steam's review system with a like/upvote, and judge someone's reliability by the number of upvotes. Why do you want to do it? Because it inconveniences you to scroll through the reviews.
That is in essence what you're saying. Do you know what's also inconvenient? losing $50+ to a scam by a guy with a crapload of farmed reactions, because you decided to trust him on numbers, not other people's experience

Were talking about a Minecraft community not ebay.

 

[Ivain]

Ok then? I disagree with everything you just said there except the GLWS bit. But its fine I guess

Care to explain why you disagree? The entirety of a vouch rating is literally the most retarded way of judging someone's reputation. I would know, since I was there when it was a thing, and about a thousand of my current postcount were spent convincing people that it is retarded.

Since you are a new member by your own account, you could not possibly know what it was like. Take a look at the scam reports section. Currently, we have 1 scam resolver. Back then, we had 3. Currently, we have 1 page of active scam reports. Back then we had 3, on average. Do you know why? Because so bloody many were getting scammed. This was because of 2 things.
1. Account sales being unregulated and loads of cheap, stolen scam alts being sold and
2. There being no accurate way to test if someone was reliable, since they could join, farm up a crapload of ratings, then convince others to go first based on that and scam. Then they could get banned, alt back using a VPN, and repeat the cycle.

 

[Aquaman]

Care to explain why you disagree? The entirety of a vouch rating is literally the most retarded way of judging someone's reputation. I would know, since I was there when it was a thing, and about a thousand of my current postcount were spent convincing people that it is retarded.

Since you are a new member by your own account, you could not possibly know what it was like. Take a look at the scam reports section. Currently, we have 1 scam resolver. Back then, we had 3. Currently, we have 1 page of active scam reports. Back then we had 3, on average. Do you know why? Because so bloody many were getting scammed. This was because of 2 things.
1. Account sales being unregulated and loads of cheap, stolen scam alts being sold and
2. There being no accurate way to test if someone was reliable, since they could join, farm up a crapload of ratings, then convince others to go first based on that and scam. Then they could get banned, alt back using a VPN, and repeat the cycle.

Ok but if you wanna see if someone is legit or not look at their rep not just one post saying Vouch. Your completely ripping off the reputation system.

 

[Ivain]

Oh I'm sorry you don't understand the point of analogies.
And yes, the "vouch for my hubby" bullshit is annoying as fuck. However, your suggestion does not solve this. In fact, it makes it worse, by making it impossible to distinguish between "vouch for my buddy" and "vouch for this person, he did an amazing job helping me out with making my server, and for cheap too! I recommend him to anyone!"

When you come up with a solution that does not create more problems than it was intended (and fails) to solve, I might be interested.[DOUBLEPOST=1502184235][/DOUBLEPOST]

Ok but if you wanna see if someone is legit or not look at their rep not just one post saying Vouch. Your completely ripping off the reputation system.

I'm not completely ripping off the reputation system. The current reputation system is confusing and broken right now, though slowly getting better. It was implemented after the vouches became a thing. The vouches are still around as a residual thing, because the reputation system is not perfect yet. And honestly, it should always be a thing, it's a great backup. A vouch does not carry as much weight as reputation, since it can be given multiple times. However, again, this is true for reactions as well.
You have yet to explain how a reaction will add to anything. With the current reputation system, you don't NEED vouch ratings. You just don't. Implementing it will not stop people from posting "vouches" in text, and it should not.

The only good way to achieve what I believe you are trying to do is to make posts just saying "vouch" etc equal to spam, which they already are, as far as I know. If they are not yet, THAT is a good use for this suggestion.
And implementing vouch ratings will do what? As I said, it will not stop people posting it in text. You'll just have a second reason to report them as spam, same with the GLWS.

The reason I'm so adamant about the vouch rating not being implemented, yet I support GLWS, is because GLWS is just a wellwish. It's on par with a like, essentially. Whereas reputation, and to some degree vouches, are meant to be like reviews. Just to further explain the analogy I used in a previous post. Vouches and reputation are an overlapping system meant for people to help judge someone's reliability or the quality of their service. Therefore, it should be possible to keep it as detailed as possible. Adding a reaction for it does nothing but give people a false sense of security.

 

[Aquaman]

Oh I'm sorry you don't understand the point of analogies.
And yes, the "vouch for my hubby" bullshit is annoying as fuck. However, your suggestion does not solve this. In fact, it makes it worse, by making it impossible to distinguish between "vouch for my buddy" and "vouch for this person, he did an amazing job helping me out with making my server, and for cheap too! I recommend him to anyone!"

When you come up with a solution that does not create more problems than it was intended (and fails) to solve, I might be interested.[DOUBLEPOST=1502184235][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'm not completely ripping off the reputation system. The current reputation system is confusing and broken right now, though slowly getting better. It was implemented after the vouches became a thing. The vouches are still around as a residual thing, because the reputation system is not perfect yet. And honestly, it should always be a thing, it's a great backup. A vouch does not carry as much weight as reputation, since it can be given multiple times. However, again, this is true for reactions as well.
You have yet to explain how a reaction will add to anything. With the current reputation system, you don't NEED vouch ratings. You just don't. Implementing it will not stop people from posting "vouches" in text, and it should not.

The only good way to achieve what I believe you are trying to do is to make posts just saying "vouch" etc equal to spam, which they already are, as far as I know. If they are not yet, THAT is a good use for this suggestion.
And implementing vouch ratings will do what? As I said, it will not stop people posting it in text. You'll just have a second reason to report them as spam, same with the GLWS.

The reason I'm so adamant about the vouch rating not being implemented, yet I support GLWS, is because GLWS is just a wellwish. It's on par with a like, essentially. Whereas reputation, and to some degree vouches, are meant to be like reviews. Just to further explain the analogy I used in a previous post. Vouches and reputation are an overlapping system meant for people to help judge someone's reliability or the quality of their service. Therefore, it should be possible to keep it as detailed as possible. Adding a reaction for it does nothing but give people a false sense of security.

k u win im not reading that.



I respect you though dude

 

[Ivain]

The respect is mutual, to some degree. You don't seem to be an idiot, like some people suggesting a thing similar to this. You've also kept your cool despite my sometimes strong use of language. You just haven't had the opportunity to see how this community works yet, and the many things that can go wrong.