Warnings/Punishments for Repeat Offenders

[Sparko]

There's some people with multiple scam reports filed on them, and the issues are similar to each other - such as someone taking forever to make things, or someone who hasn't paid.

Now, eventually it gets resolved but if there's a clear pattern of malicious actions + no intent to pay unless pressured via a scam report then I think they should eventually get a warning or punishment of some sort after a certain amount of similar reports filed against them, let's say 5??

If in the scam report it shows that they didn't bother communicating properly with the other party then doesn't that show that they had no intent to fix the issue & would avoid their responsibilities to the other party if they could (as in, if the one they scammed can't or doesn't bother to make a report)

I think it's fair to consider them somewhat a community risk, Love was banned for being friends with a bunch of scammers, why can't someone be banned or at the very least warned for repeatedly failing to do their part of the deal prior to pressure from staff?

 

[Sparko]

+1. Users that waste other people's time, and in this case their money by repeatedly not being co-operative in Scam Reports deserve some sort of punishment.

Mhm, and if they could get away with it they probably would never compensate the other party.

totally not replying to bump this

 

[Candid]

Warning system in itself is a bit messed up though. People with scamming intent should be straight up banned though, not warned

 

[BOOP]

Warning system in itself is a bit messed up though. People with scamming intent should be straight up banned though, not warned

they are banned lmao

 

[Sparko]

they are banned lmao

Not those who only decide to pay back once a report is filed, even though they showed no intent of paying back by ignoring someone's DMs while still being active on-site

 

[BOOP]

Not those who only decide to pay back once a report is filed, even though they showed no intent of paying back by ignoring someone's DMs while still being active on-site

Because that is not 100% solid proof that that they had intent to scam. It's pretty sketch, but they can't use it as a basis to ban someone for "intent to scam". Also, the person you're talking about isn't active on site - he's been disable from what I've seen.

 

[Anish]

Can't we put a hard cap? Like 25 "valid" scam reports getting you banned. Valid meaning that you were not paying until the report was opened.

 

[BOOP]

The particular person he is talking about is a repeat offender. If so many scam reports have been opened against them, imagine the number of scam reports that have NOT been opened against them or people who have straight up forgotten about it. This is not tolerable in my opinion and anyone who displays repetitive time-wasting and malicious behaviour should be punished, not only the person that he is thinking about. There is a high number of people who perpetuate this exact same behaviour, and they should be punished for doing so considering in the real world this can also get you into legal trouble.

I'm certainly not saying that it isn't sketchy, or that actions shouldn't taken - I'm saying it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to scam. The person shouldn't be banned for Intent to Scam - instead he should be banned for Community Risk.

My original comment was in regards to what POG said:

Warning system in itself is a bit messed up though. People with scamming intent should be straight up banned though, not warned

Any time there is clear and valid proof of a user having the intent to scam, they tend to be banned.

 

[Kram]

We've had some internal conversations about people like this, we won't ban someone for scamming intent unless it's really obvious and clear, however, we've agreed that people who do this often will get less leniency and time when it comes to scam reports, and so, they won't have the ability to stall.
I'm against putting a cap for how many scam reports you can have, that would be easily abused if that was implemented.
We added the scam reports tab a little while ago so people can easily see how many scam reports someone has and why it has been filed so people can better make decisions when deciding who to deal with.
If you see someone with 5+ scam reports for similar reasons, it may be fair to assume that there's a likelihood of that happening to you, so you can then decide if you choose to work with the user or not.

 

[Sparko]

Because that is not 100% solid proof that that they had intent to scam. It's pretty sketch, but they can't use it as a basis to ban someone for "intent to scam". Also, the person you're talking about isn't active on site - he's been disable from what I've seen.

Isn't not doing your end of the deal + not communicating properly enough to be considered having an intent to scam?

EDIT: w/o having a valid excuse ofc (which can honestly be checked by seeing your activity on-site or on Discord)

I'm against putting a cap for how many scam reports you can have, that would be easily abused if that was implemented.

My suggestion isn't just based on the # of scam reports, but some sort of official warning/punishment after a person is proven to have a pattern of avoiding doing their part of the deal (including communicating any issues) whilst still being active elsewhere (such as on Discord or on-site).

Also, why aren't they considered a community risk? As 120275 stated not everyone that they fail to complete a deal with will have enough time or care enough to file a report, and they're potentially getting away with scamming already. Of course there's no solid way to prove that those deals exist, however regardless if it's a thing or not the fact that they try to evade doing their part of the deal for as long as possible is already a sign of risk to those who are less familiar with the site.

If you see someone with 5+ scam reports for similar reasons, it may be fair to assume that there's a likelihood of that happening to you, so you can then decide if you choose to work with the user or not.

Yeah, I'll do that for sure but other members may not be aware of that and what we're trying to avoid here is new/not-so-active members running into issues with someone who has a track record of not fulfilling their part of the deal unless pressured to do so by staff.

 

[Anish]

Kram would you consider a user
- who takes my money
- misses deadline repeatedly
- doesn't budge till you open a Scam Report
- takes more commissions during this period
- is active the whole time (Discord + MCM)

As having an intent to scam?
What if this happens repeatedly like 15 times?

 

[Anish]

Taking a look at the description of the Scam Report section, it states,

Report members who have scammed or mislead you.

Is what I have stated above not considered misleading? Taking your money, not responding yet working w/other users and being active?

 

[Kram]

Kram would you consider a user
- who takes my money
- misses deadline repeatedly
- doesn't budge till you open a Scam Report
- takes more commissions during this period
- is active the whole time (Discord + MCM)

As having an intent to scam?
What if this happens repeatedly like 15 times?

I consider them a bad seller. They are possibly lazy or have bad priorities.
I won't say someone has scamming intent based on just those bullet points, scamming intent is a very case by case basis and we deal with each scam report and consider if it is scamming intent.

Isn't not doing your end of the deal + not communicating properly enough to be considered having an intent to scam?

EDIT: w/o having a valid excuse ofc (which can honestly be checked by seeing your activity on-site or on Discord)


My suggestion isn't just based on the # of scam reports, but some sort of official warning/punishment after a person is proven to have a pattern of avoiding doing their part of the deal (including communicating any issues) whilst still being active elsewhere (such as on Discord or on-site).

Also, why aren't they considered a community risk? As 120275 stated not everyone that they fail to complete a deal with will have enough time or care enough to file a report, and they're potentially getting away with scamming already. Of course there's no solid way to prove that those deals exist, however regardless if it's a thing or not the fact that they try to evade doing their part of the deal for as long as possible is already a sign of risk to those who are less familiar with the site.



Yeah, I'll do that for sure but other members may not be aware of that and what we're trying to avoid here is new/not-so-active members running into issues with someone who has a track record of not fulfilling their part of the deal unless pressured to do so by staff.

People who fail to meet deadlines and get things done in a timely manner in my opinion are bad sellers but not necessarily community risks in the same sense as we have used the community risk ban in the past. We have a handful of bans for that reason and it's generally because they aided banned members or aided in some illegal activity. This doesn't really fall into that.

It's a question of if a person has scamming intent or not, and that's always hard to say. With all of our scamming intent bans, we have had solid evidence that the user had some intention to scam.

 

[Anish]

People who fail to meet deadlines and get things done in a timely manner in my opinion are bad sellers but not necessarily community risks in the same sense as we have used the community risk ban in the past.

Ok, so if I, for example, take your money on June 1st.
I then ignored you but took orders from Mick, Mark and Joe. I also actively participated in the forum and bumped my own thread. But I ignored you (along with Mick, Mark & Joke).

I continue to do this, until they all open Scam Reports months later after being super frustrated. Once the report is filed, after 2 months waiting for the report to be opened up, I refund the money.
This happens 20+ times repeatedly.

Explain how that's not intent to scam? Users who are not on MCM could easily have no options, and some users who don't know about the scam report system won't file a report. It's crystal clear to me that this repetition is failing in some cases, but obviously succeeding in others.

Voltox Sparko BOOP 120275 did I miss anything?

 

[CEO_Of_PEPE]

Yeah, I mean it's basically scamming. You're taking people's money, not giving them what they bought, and either giving what they ordered on time or just refunding months after. Scam reports are very annoying to make and have very long, but reasonable, wait times.

 

[Sparko]

Here i’m sitting with like 10 previous SR’s [DOUBLEPOST=1590915886][/DOUBLEPOST]
Actually 8.

Okay, and?