Actually fix rep farming?

[moon10k]

So, there should be a set rule for giving out free stuff for a +rep. What I mean is if someone gives someone else a positive rep which says "Vouch, gave me a spotify account" or "Vouch, gave me a spotify account and asked me to +rep, so i did!", both should be a violation of the rules. Different staffs are biased on what types of rep gets removed, which is pretty stupid.

I made this thread a while back which pretty much said this: (https://www.mc-market.org/threads/389743/) (Me complaining how I reported 2 different users for doing the same thing, yet one got denied while the other got accepted)

To which BucketOfSloths replied:

What this is pretty much implying is that I could give out free spotify accounts, and not get my repped remove, because there isn't a proof for me asking for rep. I could literally just tell someone to give me a +rep, wait for them to give me that rep, then change/delete my message asking for rep.

Here's what Doge said about the situation, which is pretty much what I agree with:

SUMMARY: The 1st screenshot pretty much displays how staff are biased on which rep gets removed, even though both describe the exact same situation, what I'm saying is if someone has a rep for giving out 'free spotify accounts' or 'free steam codes' or anything, it should be removed, without any proof of them asking for rep needed.

 

[Justis]

Easy.

If a staff member sees that rep was given for a free item, remove that rep and message the user telling them not to do it again.

So if they charge a penny, then it's okay?
Two cents? Three? A dollar? Is it the fact that the user charged for the item they gave away which makes the deal relevant?
What if the item would generally be worth more than what it was sold for?
Where's the line?

 

[Kavish]

Agree. People spend less than 2 dollars and can get over 20 rep.

 

[Doge]

So if they charge a penny, then it's okay?
Two cents? Three? A dollar? Is it the fact that the user charged for the item they gave away which makes the deal relevant?
What if the item would generally be worth more than what it was sold for?
Where's the line?

[/QUOTE]

It can be stated that free items are never allowed and rep will be removed, however in scenarios as described by you, it'll be up to the staff member's best judgement. I mean it'll be painfully obvious if someone is rep farming.

 

[moon10k]

hippity hoppity get this shit rep system off my property

 

[Justis]

I agree on some parts, but I disagree with the fact you want every reputation to be removed simply because someone is giving away / doing something for free. For instance, I have gained a lot of reputation over my time on MC-Market because I did free thread designs. I never once asked or told someone to give me reputation, but people chose to give me reputation anyway. It wasn't all in the same time period, it was throughout my years on MC-Market.

Reputations should only be removed if a user has gained x amount of reputation in x amount of time. For instance, ReflectorHQ joined November 6th and had 40 reputation in less than 7 days. He was blatantly rep farming. He has since been banned for ban evading.

There's another time when someone received 15+ reputation in a matter of days for giving out free stuff. I reported the user, the reputations stayed but he lost access to sending reputation.

Staff should start removing reputation when it's so blatant that someone is asking/hinting/suggesting for reputation. There is no way that someone is getting several reputations a day for one thing or similar things without them asking/hinting/suggesting for reputation in return. After dealing with someone and you ask them to leave feedback, such as the reputation system, of course the person will more than likely give you a positive reputation if everything went good. That is essentially hinting for positive reputation, It should be common sense and staff, from what I've seen, cannot use common sense. They have to have valid proof, such as a conversation that someone asked for reputation but even then, will the rep be removed? That's something an experienced moderator+ will have to answer, as I am not 100% about that.

I fail to see how the time between receiving reputation changes how much the actual contents of the reputation are worth.

It can be stated that free items are never allowed and rep will be removed, however in scenarios as described by you, it'll be up to the staff member's best judgement. I mean it'll be painfully obvious if someone is rep farming.

We end up right back at square one with too much "staff judgement", and not enough consistency because the basis for determining what is and isn't worth being a review is too gray.

I strongly believe that simply adding a form enforcing all of the relevant information and redesigning the display of reputation to focus more on the contents than the actual point value is a much better solution to the problem than adding a bunch of flexible conditionals.

 

[moon10k]

I fail to see how the time between receiving reputation changes how much the actual contents of the reputation are worth.

We end up right back at square one with too much "staff judgement", and not enough consistency because the basis for determining what is and isn't worth being a review is too gray.

I strongly believe that simply adding a form enforcing all of the relevant information and redesigning the display of reputation to focus more on the contents than the actual point value is a much better solution to the problem than adding a bunch of flexible conditionals.

Whatever fixes the rep system I dunno, it's not like mick is actually going to change anything regarding the rep system, whether it's for the good or not.

 

[Hayden T]

Free discord setups are like that too, which I admit to kinda rep farming with.[DOUBLEPOST=1542830087][/DOUBLEPOST]Otherwise, I totally agree.

 

[Avery]

So, let me get this right: You want to make it to where mods are required to remove rep based on receiving free items on a site where you can rep someone for being nice to you? Reputation on MCM is based on how you act and who you are in the community, not on how "trusted" you are to deal with. If you want the "I received a free item from this user" reputation to be removed then all reputation where they say "User was nice to me", "User helped me", or anything that does not deal in monetary value should be removed as well.

At least when you get a free item or a vouch copy there was some sort of interaction between the users to act as a deal, if you want to whine about reputation then whine about how you can pos/neg someone for being nice, rude, trashing, or something that has no interaction between users. Hell, in the rules it states "Reputation is otherwise handled by the community, and is there to gauge the community’s opinion of you. If someone has a negative opinion of you, and you wish to improve your reputation, it is your responsibility to improve their opinion of you and therefore your reputation via communication with the reputation author." This goes both ways, if you give a user a free item then they now have a good opinion of you and can positively rep you for that.

Remember, rep is just a number on your profile, it doesn't mean anything. If you're dealing with someone take the time to see how they're known, where they post, who have they done deals with, etc. don't rely on the big green and red numbers. At the end of the day, a number isn't going to stop someone from scamming.

Justis & BucketOfSloths have both said things similar to this and I do not see this suggestion happening, nor would I like it to happen as the entire reputation system would have to be wiped to actually accomplish this, and it would continue to happen regardless of what a rule says.

 

[moon10k]

So, let me get this right: You want to make it to where mods are required to remove rep based on receiving free items on a site where you can rep someone for being nice to you? Reputation on MCM is based on how you act and who you are in the community, not on how "trusted" you are to deal with. If you want the "I received a free item from this user" reputation to be removed then all reputation where they say "User was nice to me", "User helped me", or anything that does not deal in monetary value should be removed as well.

At least when you get a free item or a vouch copy there was some sort of interaction between the users to act as a deal, if you want to whine about reputation then whine about how you can pos/neg someone for being nice, rude, trashing, or something that has no interaction between users. Hell, in the rules it states "Reputation is otherwise handled by the community, and is there to gauge the community’s opinion of you. If someone has a negative opinion of you, and you wish to improve your reputation, it is your responsibility to improve their opinion of you and therefore your reputation via communication with the reputation author." This goes both ways, if you give a user a free item then they now have a good opinion of you and can positively rep you for that.

Remember, rep is just a number on your profile, it doesn't mean anything. If you're dealing with someone take the time to see how they're known, where they post, who have they done deals with, etc. don't rely on the big green and red numbers. At the end of the day, a number isn't going to stop someone from scamming.

Justis & BucketOfSloths have both said things similar to this and I do not see this suggestion happening, nor would I like it to happen as the entire reputation system would have to be wiped to actually accomplish this, and it would continue to happen regardless of what a rule says.

Most new members, and some already on the site, just take a look at the big green number, sometimes they don't actually see how they got that rep. Honestly, the fact that this isn't enforced just allows me and others to just make the green number bigger. And it's going to get to a high amount of rep to the point where people aren't going to bother inspect it.

 

[alice]

there will always be a different way to rep farm.

 

[moon10k]

there will always be a different way to rep farm.

Exactly why the rep system is trash.

 

[alice]

Exactly why the rep system is trash.

other forums have a vouch system on top of a rep system, rep is seen as "popularity" whereas vouches are exclusively for market deals and require threads to be linked, which would be a better solution than adding more rep rules.

 

[Avery]

Most new members, and some already on the site, just take a look at the big green number, sometimes they don't actually see how they got that rep. Honestly, the fact that this isn't enforced just allows me and others to just make the green number bigger. And it's going to get to a high amount of rep to the point where people aren't going to bother inspect it.

Then I have no remorse for them. If you get scammed then you've done something wrong, no one else should be held accountable for your inability to decide if someone is decent enough to deal with.

 

[moon10k]

other forums have a vouch system on top of a rep system, rep is seen as "popularity" whereas vouches are exclusively for market deals and require threads to be linked, which would be a better solution than adding more rep rules.

ye but mick just says it's be too complicated and shit, he pretty much can't be bothered to change the rep system.

 

[alice]

ye but mick just says it's be too complicated and shit, he pretty much can't be bothered to change the rep system.

the rep system is fine, adding a vouch system on top of that like the one mybb has can't be that difficult.

 

[moon10k]

the rep system is fine, adding a vouch system on top of that like the one mybb has can't be that difficult.

Yeah, I've suggested something like that, but apparently it's "unnecessary" or something

 

[Choo]

Is "rep farming" even against the rules then? They make it look like its perfectly fine if you do it right...