Change My Mind: Cape Codes Should Be ALLOWED

[US]

• With code prices reaching $500+ for just a 2016 (currently an active buy order of $600 for a 2016) everyone uses middle-men at these prices.

• Set up a popup that says "Reminder: always use a reputable middleman!"

• Arguing that codes are too easy to scam is bullshit. Everything is fucking easy to scam if u are reputable. Furthermore couldn't you scam with bitcoin just as easily? (simply get the person to go first)

• The problem is not that cape codes are easy to scam. The problem are the people who wouldn't use a middleman (but these type of scams of getting people to go first HAPPEN IN EVERY CATEGORY).

• How do we prevent noobs from going first? You fucking can't. Give them a reminder to use a middleman (you cant prevent stupid, sorry its a fact).

• Finally, someone give me some got damn evidence of cape codes being more easy to scam than any other category. How is a cape code more easy to scam than a og account? (if the buyer goes first in both occasions they are at risk of scams.)

"You can simply fake a cape code by doing a google search for a minecon ticket."

1. You can do a reverse image search of the image (if they didnt edit it then you should find the same exact image).
2. What if they edited it? Ask, will you use Doge as a middleman? If they say no then I think you know the code doesnt exist.

Rules for cape codes:
1. If they refuse to middleman, either a suspension or a permanent ban from the cape code section.
2. Failure to prove that the code is legit (or its proven fake) is a ban.
3. Have its own section under Cape Accounts.


Day 1: Mind Changed?
No, not at all.

The common theme amongst those that disagree is that codes are untraceable. So is EVERYTHING in the gift code/license forum. Furthermore minecraft accounts have their own form of being untraceable. If an account has 5+ owners and one of them pulls it how does anyone find out who did it?

 

[doodle]

I mainly just agree with Choo tho. It fr is jus better safe then sorry to allow them to be sold on here.

It's quite the opposite.

 

[shen]

It's quite the opposite.

oh I worded that wrong my b

Edit: Fixed it :v

 

[Harry]

Using discord would make this much easier following these steps with screensharing on from the buyer after the BTC transaction:

1. Use Bitcoin as a payment
2. Let the Middleman hold the BTC
3. Let the seller give the buyer the code
4. The buyer records/screenshares activating the code
5. If it works, middleman hands over the BTC to the seller.
6. If it doesn't work, ban the seller.

If the buyer doesn't record or shares his screen as soon as he receives the code, ban the buyer.
Middleman should use a recording software so he can report one of the parties so the party gets banned.

Even that is very problematic, from enforcing the use of screen recording software to the fact that the middleman could still use the code via a second monitor or machine, without either party knowing. These sorts of sales still pose a far higher risk of being scammed compared with MC account sales or sales of other products.

Plus, many people don't have Bitcoin readily available, and may not like or want the delays in getting blockchain confirmations.

 

[shen]

Using discord would make this much easier following these steps with screensharing on from the buyer after the BTC transaction:

1. Use Bitcoin as a payment
2. Let the Middleman hold the BTC
3. Let the seller give the buyer the code
4. The buyer records/screenshares activating the code
5. If it works, middleman hands over the BTC to the seller.
6. If it doesn't work, ban the seller.

If the buyer doesn't record or shares his screen as soon as he receives the code, ban the buyer.
Middleman should use a recording software so he can report one of the parties so the party gets banned.

buyer could always just activate the code onto an acc before screensharing and make the seller look like he’s scamming. Also if codes still work the way they used to when I applied my 13 and 15 in late 2017 they have to be altered so they can even be applied.

 

[US]

But then he would have to Middleman every deal, seems like a pain in the ass for him to do.

He already middlemans all of them

I know, I'm just saying he probably doesn't want to have to Middleman every deal in that section.

He already does

Even that is very problematic, from enforcing the use of screen recording software to the fact that the middleman could still use the code via a second monitor or machine, without either party knowing. These sorts of sales still pose a far higher risk of being scammed compared with MC account sales or sales of other products.

Plus, many people don't have Bitcoin readily available, and may not like or want the delays in getting blockchain confirmations.

Majored, assuming the middle man is doge which it always is no one will be running off with shit.

I always love when people point out a specific flaw of cape codes but fail to realize that Minecraft accounts have the same flaw. I remember seeing a scam report about this. Harry is it traceable whatsoever for you guys to find who pulled an account if it has 5+ owners and all of them have tid + og info? No, it isn't. Is it traceable for you guys to find out if an account was pulled or locked? (In most situations, no). One of the classic examples of not knowing if it's locked or not is with the IGN Yoshi. One day the account just stopped working for the current owner. They tried to track down the og owner but magically the og owner couldn't be bothered with simply providing information to pull the account. Could it be locked? Yes it very much could. Could it be pulled? Yes as well.

Harry has a great point here. The point with code scamming is the scam can't be traced back to the Middleman. Since the Middleman can't verify it exists without testing it, he would have to give the code that the Seller gave him, meaning if it was real, he could redeem it and pass it on to the Buyer who would be none the wiser that the Middleman claimed it instead of the Seller. Furthermore, if the Buyer claimed the code was false, the Middleman has no way of knowing whether they claimed it or if the code is actually false; Let me provide you with a scenario:

Seller: Opens chat and adds Buyer & Middleman
S: Gives the code to M privately
B: Gives payment for M to hold
M: Gives the code to B privately
B: "This code says it doesn't work!"

Now, as seen above, the Middleman could hold all the cards here; He could scam with the code and the payment, which yes, is just as easy as any other scam. However, as long as the Middleman returns the funds, he could have easily scammed the code and the Seller wouldn't know and the Buyer wouldn't know. The Seller would assume the Buyer redeemed it and is claiming it is false to scam, while the Buyer thinks the Seller sold him a false code to scam. Let's try a different scenario, assuming the Middleman does not scam and the Buyer claims the code is false, when the Seller knows is not. The Seller has 2 options; 1) Believe the Middleman scammed by redeeming the code and passing it along or 2) Believe the Buyer scammed by redeeming the code and lying; The Seller has no way of knowing. The Middleman also has 2 options; 1) Believe the Seller scammed by providing a false code to him or 2) Believe the Buyer scammed by redeeming the code and lying; The Middleman has no way of knowing. And in the last scenario, the Seller scams by providing a false code, with about the same outcomes. I know this is kind of confusing, let me know if you don't understand.

TL;DR - Anyone involved in the deal could scam, and nobody (except the scammer) would know who did it, and thus the scammer could never be punished. Unlike, BTC/MC Accounts, which can easily be traced to the scammer.

Ur whole post is useless based upon ur first paragraph. asa and Doge have the ability to verify the cape codes without using them. Both are not going to run with a cape code.

 

[shen]

He already middlemans all of them


He already does


Majored, assuming the middle man is doge which it always is no one will be running off with shit.

I always love when people point out a specific flaw of cape codes but fail to realize that Minecraft accounts have the same flaw. I remember seeing a scam report about this. Harry is it traceable whatsoever for you guys to find who pulled an account if it has 5+ owners and all of them have tid + og info? No, it isn't. Is it traceable for you guys to find out if an account was pulled or locked? (In most situations, no). One of the classic examples of not knowing if it's locked or not is with the IGN Yoshi. One day the account just stopped working for the current owner. They tried to track down the og owner but magically the og owner couldn't be bothered with simply providing information to pull the account. Could it be locked? Yes it very much could. Could of it been pulled? Yes as well.
Ur whole post is useless based upon ur first paragraph. asa and Doge have the ability to verify the cape codes without using them. Both are not going to run with a cape code.

U can find out if an account is locked using the -comp method still I think. Tell whoever owned Yoshi to do it. Buying any acc comes w risk but codes have considerably more. I’ll vouch for doge all day but that don’t mean some of the most repped ppl in the com don’t exit scam. Saying “let doge do it cuz doge is doge” is so dumb lol

 

[US]

U can find out if an account is locked using the -comp method still I think. Tell whoever owned Yoshi to do it. Buying any acc comes w risk but codes have considerably more. I’ll vouch for doge all day but that don’t mean some of the most repped ppl in the com don’t exit scam. Saying “let doge do it cuz doge is doge” is so dumb lol

Never said that. Let doge do it because doge has completed the most cape code deals out of anyone on this site.

Lotus and Harry based on your logic why do we have a gift code and license category? You cant verify anything with a giftcode. If a middleman receives it and uses it (say its an amazon $100 gift card) how do you guys confirm who used it? This stands for any and all gift cards. So whats so different about a cape code??? Both are generally untraceable.

Lotus please tell me whats different from a gift card and a minecraft cape code.

 

[Harry]

In regards to why we allow gift code/license sales, I'm not really in a position to discuss it, as I wasn't even around back then when these decisions were made; I'll simply quote Justis as to why cape codes specifically are not allowed, and he or others more suited can provide input if needed:

All of the above aside, the largest issue with cape codes is simply the market itself. The fact that legitimate sellers make up the minority of the market means that it’s a tumor not worth attaching to our community and subjecting them to. We would be knowingly bringing in more scammers than we are bringing in legitimate sellers, and that will always be the wrong decision.

I don't believe the solution to this would simply be to allow a single individual, even if that be Doge, to MM every single deal. That's a large amount of responsibility to hold over someone's head, and what happens if he's unavailable, or away for a large period of time? We couldn't simply leave these deals stagnant for this time.

asa and Doge have the ability to verify the cape codes without using them. Both are not going to run with a cape code.

How could you possibly know that? Even if both users have been in the community for a large amount of time, and are very well-known/reputable, you could not speak on behalf of their future intentions.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't see us ever putting this much trust and responsibility onto a single individual's head.

 

[US]

In regards to why we allow gift code/license sales, I'm not really in a position to discuss it, as I wasn't even around back then when these decisions were made; I'll simply quote Justis as to why cape codes specifically are not allowed, and he or others more suited can provide input if needed:


I don't believe the solution to this would simply be to allow a single individual, even if that be Doge, to MM every single deal. That's a large amount of responsibility to hold over someone's head, and what happens if he's unavailable, or away for a large period of time? We couldn't simply leave these deals stagnant for this time.


How could you possibly know that? Even if both users have been in the community for a large amount of time, and are very well-known/reputable, you could not speak on behalf of their future intentions.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't see us ever putting this much trust and responsibility onto a single individual's head.

He already middlemans all cape code deals. No one is forcing him, he does it because he is just extremely nice. If it ever became a burden for him he could reveal the method of checking the codes. Regardless of the cape code section being released, asa and Doge do all cape code deals.

I still need someone to explain how a gift card is different from a minecon code. With both you cannot prove who claimed it, thus, in the staffs logic all gift codes and licenses should not be allowed because they are untraceable. (Yet everything but minecon codes are allowed)

 

[Landon]

Everything u just said is irrelevant if u required a MiddleMan. Like I said, if they say "no middleman" then you know the code doesn't exist especially considering Doge's rep with cape deals.

You went on a tangent about how people had some safety net with Minecraft accounts. If someone sends Bitcoin first then it's gone forever (and gratz u have proof u went first and sent it). Also what's the safety net through mojang support if the seller doesn't provide oge or tid??

When u make a thread for mc accounts it says Transaction ID, yes/no. For cape codes have one that is middleman? Yes/no. If clicked no have a pop-up that says a MiddleMans are required for all cape code deals.

Your whole argument is based off of someone going first and you are not changing anyone's mind that going first for irrecoverable money such as btc is not smart.Again you allowed cape code deals with no protocol. Then once it blew up in your face you blamed the scammers instead of the protocol. Please tell me how a middle man protocol would knowingly bring you more scammers.


I also want to ask you if you are so afraid about your staff team finding out about who does a scam then why is TID allowed to be provided at all. If an account is passed down 10 times with tid and OGE then one of the owners pulls it, where are the records that ur staff team will have?

Your entire argument is on requiring a middleman. Lol what? I trust maybe one user on here with $500+.

 

[US]

Your entire argument is on requiring a middleman. Lol what? I trust maybe one user on here with $500+.

u didnt read anything. Do you care to address this since you completely understand my argument: if gift codes are equally as untraceable, why are they allowed and not codes?[DOUBLEPOST=1567197371][/DOUBLEPOST]

Your entire argument is on requiring a middleman. Lol what? I trust maybe one user on here with $500+.

I love the addition of "Lol what." I do appreciate making people laugh however I placed an emphasis on requiring a middleman. Requiring a middleman may not be needed but staff seem to think it the addition of cape codes will bring in too many scammers. May I inquire on who you trust with the $500? That bit of information was completely irrelevant but since you mentioned it you have made me curious[DOUBLEPOST=1567197716][/DOUBLEPOST]doodle you seem to be the last person who disagrees. Do you have an answer as to why cape codes are different then a license or gift code? Let me give you an analysis before you respond so we are on the same page.

Similarities of gift codes and cape codes:
1. Both can be checked (some situations a gift code can not be checked at all) to see if they are legit.
2. For gift codes, you cannot tell who used it (maybe their is an exception for some niche gift codes, but the majority are untraceable).

 

[Justis]

He already middlemans all cape code deals. No one is forcing him, he does it because he is just extremely nice. If it ever became a burden for him he could reveal the method of checking the codes. Regardless of the cape code section being released, asa and Doge do all cape code deals.

I still need someone to explain how a gift card is different from a minecon code. With both you cannot prove who claimed it, thus, in the staffs logic all gift codes and licenses should not be allowed because they are untraceable. (Yet everything but minecon codes are allowed)

This was already explained.

You responded to all of my points except this one, both when I said it and when Majored quoted it, which is odd, because I clearly stated that it was the largest issue.

All of the above aside, the largest issue with cape codes is simply the market itself. The fact that legitimate sellers make up the minority of the market means that it’s a tumor not worth attaching to our community and subjecting them to. We would be knowingly bringing in more scammers than we are bringing in legitimate sellers, and that will always be the wrong decision.

It’s true that many gift codes have similar dangers in terms of the information available. So if a gift code market becomes the same hot spot for scammers that the cape code market is, then we will also quickly and mercilessly shave it off of our community.

 

[doodle]

u didnt read anything. Do you care to address this since you completely understand my argument: if gift codes are equally as untraceable, why are they allowed and not codes?[DOUBLEPOST=1567197371][/DOUBLEPOST]
I love the addition of "Lol what." I do appreciate making people laugh however I placed an emphasis on requiring a middleman. Requiring a middleman may not be needed but staff seem to think it the addition of cape codes will bring in too many scammers. May I inquire on who you trust with the $500? That bit of information was completely irrelevant but since you mentioned it you have made me curious[DOUBLEPOST=1567197716][/DOUBLEPOST]doodle you seem to be the last person who disagrees. Do you have an answer as to why cape codes are different then a license or gift code? Let me give you an analysis before you respond so we are on the same page.

Similarities of gift codes and cape codes:
1. Both can be checked (some situations a gift code can not be checked at all) to see if they are legit.
2. For gift codes, you cannot tell who used it (maybe their is an exception for some niche gift codes, but the majority are untraceable).

Cape codes are of much higher value and attract lots of scammers compared to gift codes.

 

[Landon]

I love the addition of "Lol what." I do appreciate making people laugh however I placed an emphasis on requiring a middleman. Requiring a middleman may not be needed but staff seem to think it the addition of cape codes will bring in too many scammers. May I inquire on who you trust with the $500? That bit of information was completely irrelevant but since you mentioned it you have made me curious

Zyger

 

[US]

This was already explained.

You responded to all of my points except this one, both when I said it and when Majored quoted it, which is odd, because I clearly stated that it was the largest issue.


It’s true that many gift codes have similar dangers in terms of the information available. So if a gift code market becomes the same hot spot for scammers that the cape code market is, then we will also quickly and mercilessly shave it off of our community.

What a dangerous policy lotus. You acknowledge a flaw, provide no solutions, and wait until many people get scammed. I think if you want to put this thread to rest you should provide proof of the abundant amount of scams via cape codes (either through scam report threads or any other proof that these scams occurred). Currently the entire staff team is arguing with nothing to back themselves up.

So if a gift code market becomes the same hot spot for scammers that the cape code market is

cute wording, change the last word to "was" because in the current cape code market nearly no one has been scammed. You ask "wheres your proof of that?"
Here it is:
All people who have been scammed for cape codes within the last year come forth!! If my eyes don't lie I see no one. (please tell me if im hallucinating). Provide proof as well, no more here-say shit.[DOUBLEPOST=1567198780][/DOUBLEPOST]

Cape codes are of much higher value and attract lots of scammers compared to gift codes.

got any proof other than the staff's words?

 

[doodle]

What a dangerous policy lotus. You acknowledge a flaw, provide no solutions, and wait until many people get scammed. I think if you want to put this thread to rest you should provide proof of the abundant amount of scams via cape codes (either through scam report threads or any other proof that these scams occurred). Currently the entire staff team is arguing with nothing to back themselves up.

cute wording, change the last word to "was" because in the current cape code market nearly no one has been scammed. You ask "wheres your proof of that?"
Here it is:
All people who have been scammed for cape codes within the last year come forth!! If my eyes don't lie I see no one. (please tell me if im hallucinating). Provide proof as well, no more here-say shit.

What? People in the MC Account forum get scammed but not enough to close it; same with the gift code market. The only solution to provide is to close the forum, so should we also close the MC Account forum as well?

 

[US]

What? People in the MC Account forum get scammed but not enough to close it; same with the gift code market. The only solution to provide is to close the forum, so should we also close the MC Account forum as well?

Doodle if you read the clear point Lotus acknowledged their is a gray area in gift codes. Its the fact that they are untraceable (I just want consistency with their logic and possibly some proof) Instead of doing anything about it he and the staff are waiting for scams.
MC accounts do get scammed but what exactly is your point? I never said they should get shut down.

 

[doodle]

Doodle if you read the clear point Lotus acknowledged their is a gray area in gift codes. Its the fact that they are untraceable (I just want consistency with their logic and possibly some proof) Instead of doing anything about it he and the staff are waiting for scams.
MC accounts do get scammed but what exactly is your point? I never said they should get shut down.

You're saying that the staff team needs to do something about gift codes (to create an equal environment with cape codes), but the problem is the consistency in which scams happen. There will be far more scammers for cape codes because of the value they have and their rarity compared to gift codes you can buy online 1:1