Don't moderate stuff that has nothing to do with MCM (i.e discord servers)

[Sky.]

Wild suggestion, I know but here's the idea:
I know this will get denied, but take my one cents and eat it.

Don't moderate stuff that has nothing to do with MCM (i.e discord servers)

I'm going to take an example here, let's just talk about Mantis's ban. He was basically banned for: I'm going to joke about hitting a scammers router so hard that it'd be set on fire.
At the time, many people had just gotten scammed by the guy so of course people will say shit like that - but they will never act upon it.

That's not the point I'm trying to get at though, MCM shouldn't be able to moderate Discord Servers and ban people for what they say unless their words have been acted upon.

So you can say what Mantis said, without being banned. So you can actually make jokes without being punished.

Making a joke, and making a threat is very different and in more recent days, MCM's staff have struggled to see this.

By no means, am I trying to appeal Mantis's ban I just want this not to happen to more people.

Here's the rule I'm proposing:

`MCM is not allowed to moderate and or ban people via what they said on different platforms. They are only allowed to ban someone if it has been acted upon. I.e doxxing someone.`

An exception to this is threatening to scam, as that can be repeated again and again. So please bear that in mind.

I understand if something is said in the Chatbox, or on MCM PM's, but MCM is in no authority to ban someone over what they said on another platform.

I bet all my money that MCM won't listen - but if Mick wants to claim in on that bet be my guest.

Thank you

p.s i don't want to be attacked in the comments for this, please just leave your opinions without names, keeps everything a bit more civil

 

[inferno]

Strongly disagree, a threat is a threat regardless... How can we assure they don't do what they claim eventually?
-1

( Not talking about mantis's case )

Talking more about if someone threatens to swat, dox or ddos when it is serious

 

[inferno]

#freemantis

#FreeMantis

This has no relevance to the thread suggestion.... its not about getting mantis unbanned on this exact threads its about seeing if discord should be moderated[DOUBLEPOST=1608076205][/DOUBLEPOST]

You would be the perfect staff member, not knowing the difference between a threat and a joke

ok but did you read where I said " Not talking about mantis case ", and " when its serious "

 

[Sky.]

Strongly disagree, a threat is a threat regardless... How can we assure they don't do what they claim eventually?
-1

( Not talking about mantis's case )

Talking more about if someone threatens to swat, dox, or ddos when it is serious

That's why you know when it's a joke, in Mantis's case it was a joke - but you'll need more context than just what was said. A threat is a threat, yes - but it's not MCM's responsibility. If they go through with the threat, they can be banned but if not - it can be reported to the community and or site's trust and safety team.

does not apply to scamming, I know its a double standard but there's a fine line.

 

[inferno]

Then ban them when they follow through with their threat.... if they are insistent on ddos/dox/swatting a user on MCM banning them wont do shit

but if they have malicious intent all around what if they use MC-Market to do so? It helps them find information needed with ease[DOUBLEPOST=1608076390][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's why you know when it's a joke, in Mantis's case it was a joke - but you'll need more context than just what was said. A threat is a threat, yes - but it's not MCM's responsibility. If they go through with the threat, they can be banned but if not - it can be reported to the community and or site's trust and safety team.

does not apply to scamming, I know its a double standard but there's a fine line.

What if somebody were to threaten but not do the action to the user specifically they threatened? They did the action regardless but just didn't make it as known, someone threatening seriously will never guarantee they won't do it..

 

[Sky.]

but if they have malicious intent all around what if they use MC-Market to do so? It helps them find information needed with ease[DOUBLEPOST=1608076390][/DOUBLEPOST]
What if somebody were to threaten but not do the action to the user specifically they threatened? They did the action regardless but just didn't make it as known, someone threatening seriously will never guarantee they won't do it..

There is always context and a tone -

Example:

Tense chat argument
Of course, in that situation it may be real - so a ban or a suspension may be warranted.

Example 2:

User was just scammed 50$ and is angry
In that situation its normal to say something you don't mean[DOUBLEPOST=1608076551][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, has anyone ever thought of the idea that Discord Messages can be faked, like yes - Mantis's case was real - but in other cases ... you get the point.

 

[inferno]

If they're DEAD SET on harming someone like that they can make a ban evading account and take pictures of shoutbox and whatnot to try to piece together a dox

Then what stops them from being on MC-Market and not even using discord?? If they don't care about being banned they'll just make a new account no? There's not really a way to fully prevent it but atleast banning early on means that people can't use their aged/reputable accounts to say send a payment ultimately gaining the users contact information via paypal or whatnot..

This whole thread is based on one individuals ban and has no regard to the actual issue and its become pretty clear with the replies. I understand you could be upset about their ban but taking it to a thread such as this one isn't going to help you whatsoever. Removing full moderation of discord from MC-Market will cause far more issues then the case you mention.

 

[Hembessy]

I agree. MCM business should stay MCM business. My business got a negative rep because a staff member of mine hurt the feelings of a friend of someone on here... Not only was it not on MCM but the person who neg rep'd me wasn't even the person affected!! Disputed it, but to no avail, it remains.

 

[inferno]

There is always context and a tone -

Example:

Tense chat argument
Of course, in that situation it may be real - so a ban or a suspension may be warranted.

Example 2:

User was just scammed 50$ and is angry
In that situation its normal to say something you don't mean[DOUBLEPOST=1608076551][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, has anyone ever thought of the idea that Discord Messages can be faked, like yes - Mantis's case was real - but in other cases ... you get the point.

1. Staff always verify the messages aren't faked via refreshing on video and copying the discord ID.. That point is void. Next, doesn't getting scammed influence more that you'd actually do what you threaten rather than a heated argument that you can walk away from without anything holding you back?

 

[Sky.]

This whole thread is based on one individuals ban and has no regard to the actual issue and its become pretty clear with the replies. I understand you could be upset about their ban but taking it to a thread such as this one isn't going to help you whatsoever. Removing full moderation of discord from MC-Market will cause far more issues then the case you mention.

Just responding to this bit:
While yes, this thread is heavily influenced by a certain members action. This has happened to multiple users. I can name a few if you like, I'm not saying remove complete moderation but what you say in discord shouldn't be a determining factor in your ban.[DOUBLEPOST=1608076999][/DOUBLEPOST]I understand your views, but when you scam someone - you can get angry.

Also has anyone ever heard of an empty threat. It's very obvious if you have some common sense that some threats arent actually meant to cause harm.

 

[inferno]

Just responding to this bit:
While yes, this thread is heavily influenced by a certain members action. This has happened to multiple users. I can name a few if you like, I'm not saying remove complete moderation but what you say in discord shouldn't be a determining factor in your ban.[DOUBLEPOST=1608076999][/DOUBLEPOST]I understand your views, but when you scam someone - you can get angry.

Also has anyone ever heard of an empty threat. It's very obvious if you have some common sense that some threats arent actually meant to cause harm.

Ok but how do you assure that? If somebody threatens its a threat regardless. There's no way to know what they're thinking.

 

[Sky.]

Ok but how do you assure that? If somebody threatens its a threat regardless. There's no way to know what they're thinking.

As mentioned in another suggestion, give the victim a chance to decide on the punishment or if it meant anything to them.
If you get scammed by someone, your gonna be angry. No one handles that calmly.
So as I keep saying context is key.
And on the how we know, just read more chat messages understand the situation as from what I see at the moment is that MCM is just basing it off one message.
And to fix this, only allow the person who was threatened to make a report, not random people.

 

[Blaze.]

I understand your logic but I disagree with it entirely.

MCM shouldn't be able to moderate Discord Servers and ban people for what they say unless their words have been acted upon.

So people who are seriously talking about existing in discord DMS with their friends & in servers shouldn't be banned for Scamming Intention/Attempted Scamming/Community Threat? What about if people threaten to dox, swat, etc? MCM just can't sit there and do nothing imo as long as the proper evidence is sent in.

What if someone does a deal on discord in DMs or in a server and get scammed & then later find their scammer's MCM account? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this rule was implemented the scammer would get off scot-free, no? The entirety of the deal happened off-site, so what I'm getting from your logic is that it's not MCM's responsibility since this happened elsewhere.

I'm going to take an example here, let's just talk about Mantis's ban. He was basically banned for: I'm going to joke about hitting a scammers router so hard that it'd be set on fire.
At the time, many people had just gotten scammed by the guy so of course people will say shit like that - but they will never act upon it.

Don't get me wrong, I was friends with Mantis. It sucks to see the guy go, but "joking" about hitting someone's router offline is just like "joking" about scamming - it's not funny lol. It was a poor joke and still technically is a threat. I'm not saying he should be banned for this, but seriously, who jokes about scamming people or hitting someone offline? It's a shitty, edgy joke that edgy teenagers would make and isn't funny to 99% of people.

So you can say what Mantis said, without being banned. So you can actually make jokes without being punished.

Making a joke, and making a threat is very different and in more recent days, MCM's staff have struggled to see this.

By no means, am I trying to appeal Mantis's ban I just want this not to happen to more people.

Again, it really can't be considered a joke. He might not do it, but it's not funny at all (like jokes are supposed to be) and especially considering this was most likely wasn't said over voice chat and instead was in a discord chat, it is very hard to tell whether or not someone is being sarcastic.

Also, making a joke and a threat, depending on what is said, is very, very hard to tell apart in text chats. I haven't see what he's been banned for, but it most likely looked like more of a threat than an edgy joke in the context the screenshot was taken in.

Mantis was a rare case where the screenshot most likely was taken in a bad context, but again, if people threaten to do stuff off-site, they should still be punished.

I understand if something is said in the Chatbox, or on MCM PM's, but MCM is in no authority to ban someone over what they said on another platform.

Again, I disagree.

If people actually threaten to do/do:
- Dox
- Leak resources, plugins, etc
- DDoS
- Scam
- Chargeback

or do any other malicious things off-site, in my opinion, it should be treated exactly the same as it would be on-site. It doesn't make sense to give people a pass or just ignore what happened off-site, and I will never understand how that makes sense to anyone else.

 

[inferno]

As mentioned in another suggestion, give the victim a chance to decide on the punishment or if it meant anything to them.
If you get scammed by someone, your gonna be angry. No one handles that calmly.
So as I keep saying context is key.
And on the how we know, just read more chat messages understand the situation as from what I see at the moment is that MCM is just basing it off one message.
And to fix this, only allow the person who was threatened to make a report, not random people.

Yes, but then comes in bribery, threats and silencing the user threatened.. If you're being threatened you'd likely not report it and try to solve it as it'd cause more problems on you, being able to allow the victim to forgive will not always be accurate. There's many factors to come into play. Say I scam you 500$, and get banned, the victim will always want their money back no? They'll even take a part of it to get the user unbanned. Overall I find these suggestions very directed to a specific user, you're better off using tickets for this. Don't affect the full community just because you're hurt over another member. Have them open a ticket, open one for them but stop affecting the whole community because of them, it will not change their outcome but the outcome of the site overall. I am not suggesting they're wrong whatsoever, but if this fails there goes the site[DOUBLEPOST=1608077788][/DOUBLEPOST]

I understand your logic but I disagree with it entirely.



So people who are seriously talking about existing in discord DMS with their friends & in servers shouldn't be banned for Scamming Intention/Attempted Scamming/Community Threat? What about if people threaten to dox, swat, etc? MCM just can't sit there and do nothing imo as long as the proper evidence is sent in.

What if someone does a deal on discord in DMs or in a server and get scammed & then later find their scammer's MCM account? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this rule was implemented the scammer would get off scot-free, no? The entirety of the deal happened off-site, so what I'm getting from your logic is that it's not MCM's responsibility since this happened elsewhere.



Don't get me wrong, I was friends with Mantis. It sucks to see the guy go, but "joking" about hitting someone's router offline is just like "joking" about scamming - it's not funny lol. It was a poor joke and still technically is a threat. I'm not saying he should be banned for this, but seriously, who jokes about scamming people or hitting someone offline? It's a shitty, edgy joke that edgy teenagers would make and isn't funny to 99% of people.



Again, it really can't be considered a joke. He might not do it, but it's not funny at all (like jokes are supposed to be) and especially considering this was most likely wasn't said over voice chat and instead was in a discord chat, it is very hard to tell whether or not someone is being sarcastic.

Also, making a joke and a threat, depending on what is said, is very, very hard to tell apart in text chats. I haven't see what he's been banned for, but it most likely looked like more of a threat than an edgy joke in the context the screenshot was taken in.

Mantis was a rare case where the screenshot most likely was taken in a bad context, but again, if people threaten to do stuff off-site, they should still be punished.



Again, I disagree.

If people actually threaten to do/do:
- Dox
- Leak resources, plugins, etc
- DDoS
- Scam
- Chargeback

or do any other malicious things off-site, in my opinion, it should be treated exactly the same as it would be on-site. It doesn't make sense to give people a pass or just ignore what happened off-site, and I will never understand how that makes sense to anyone else.

finally, somebody with a non biased perspective, I Completely agree with you

 

[Sky.]

I'd love to argue all day people but I don't have that time nor am I interested in spending my time like that.

Here's what I've gathered so far:

People think that people should be banned if they say anything threat related. To that I offer a compromise.

Don't ban users, suspend them. Threats which aren't acted on are better than threats which are acted upon.

Personally, I don't want any action made, but I already know a compromise will have to be made.

Blaze inferno what'd ya think?