Forcing people to pay F&F should be bannable

[Flipora]

I personally think PayPal has a great system which is you can pay G&S if you are buying a good or service, and if you are scammed, you can chargeback. Something that bothers me is I see everyone forcing buyers to pay F&F. Unless you are a friend or family of the seller, that is against PayPal TOS and if you are legit, you should be fully equipt to defend against a chargeback if it comes up. This is the cause of 90% of the scams on MCM.

I think that forcing sellers to accept G&S (they would be allowed to ask for extra money for fees) would either: make dealing better for the buyer (because fewer scams would pass as the buyer would chargeback), or it would lead the MCM community away from PayPal and to another payment app/site (which would honestly be good too because PayPal is ass).

If you do use a agree/disagree reaction, I would love to hear your reasoning.

Edit: Argue your hearts out but this is not going to happen. Everyone is selfish and it is buyers vs sellers at this point no one gives a shit about what's right they want what's best for them (I can't blame them).

 

[Jack]

Shouldn't be bannable. If someone requires you to pay via F&F there's nothing you can do except talk to the seller and try to pay via G&S, or just don't deal with them.

I do see a lot of people asking for payments via F&F; I also see a lot of people complaining about their PayPal account getting locked/limited/suspended/requiring addition info. Just use PayPal correctly and responsibly by following their ToS, and don't use F&F for payments as you and the seller could both be suspended from PP for abusing such a feature.
If the seller really wants to risk their PayPal account (and if their details are accurate, then feature accounts they create as well), let them do it.

Along with everything provided, another downside of G&S is that the buyer is able to see your address, and who wants members of this forum with 1 reputation going around with your address, you never know what could happen.

There should be an option (at least for me) that says 'No address required'.

 

[Flipora]

Shouldn't be bannable. If someone requires you to pay via F&F there's nothing you can do except talk to the seller and try to pay via G&S, or just don't deal with them.

I do see a lot of people asking for payments via F&F; I also see a lot of people complaining about their PayPal account getting locked/limited/suspended/requiring addition info. Just use PayPal correctly and responsibly by following their ToS, and don't use F&F for payments as you and the seller could both be suspended from PP for abusing such a feature.
If the seller really wants to risk their PayPal account (and if their details are accurate, then feature accounts they create as well), let them do it.


There should be an option (at least for me) that says 'No address required'.

You only get banned if you sell over 5k in F&F which makes this invalid as most people on this site don't make that much.

 

[Ken]

Say you're buying an OG though, that you really want it and obviously no one has it but you, but the seller wont accept G&S and forces you to pay F&F for it, it would be hard for me to pass this opportunity to buy my "dream account"
Same thing for a service, say there is a guy who can do exactly what you want, and is extremely good at what he does and fits your budget, but forces you to pay F&F but you can't.


This is actually happening to me every time I want to buy an account, they wont accept G&S from me, meaning I cannot buy the account because F&F is not a thing in my region. Even with mean Ken it was like this when I bought McDonalds, he wouldn't let me pay G&S so I had to get twinightcreep0 to transfer the money to him.

I totally agree with this suggestion, and honestly there's no reason to accept F&F only, you can still easily chargeback the money by quickly calling paypal, or possibly sending them an email, and there are still fees for the buyer, nothing changes except for the fact that the buyer is the one paying for them.
No reason not to use G&S tbh.

paypal steals money if paid through g&s

 

[Flipora]

paypal steals money if paid through g&s

make buyer pay fees

 

[punctured]

paypal is not friendly when you’re selling products which break their TOS such as minecraft accounts. there are plenty of ways to guarantee a g&s chargeback win as a buyer even if a product is sold legitimately. paypal sides with the buyer on a majority of claims. the acceptance of g&s over f&f should remain up to sellers.

 

[Norska]

paypal steals money if paid through g&s

I hope you're joking.

make buyer pay fees

You can do that by adding a tax % on invoices you send as a seller.

 

[Lex]

Or we just all move to BTC

 

[Splodgebox]

How about when you use G&S pay a bit extra because of the tax (Giving no reason for them to ask for F&F) & if the person thinks you will just chargeback then don't deal with them because obviously, they aren't serious about the deal. Simple

 

[Lotus]

In my eyes, it’s not MCM’s responsibility to enforce this. It’s the buyers and sellers responsibility. It’s your fault you got scammed through F&F since you yourself agreed to the circumstances in the first place. If you simply don’t want to do F&F, reject the deal. That’s what I simply do.

 

[pet]

In my eyes, it’s not MCM’s responsibility to enforce this. It’s the buyers and sellers responsibility. It’s your fault you got scammed through F&F since you yourself agreed to the circumstances in the first place. If you simply don’t want to do F&F, reject the deal. That’s what I simply do.

You could also use an amazing middleman (me)

Jokes aside, you can just look for a cheap / free middleman on the "Middlemen" section of the forum :tup:

 

[RajK]

G&S works well only in cases where you have information about the buyer, it'll never work out on a site like this. If chargebacks were to be done via Buycraft, as an example, you have the buyer's ip, location, email, and more which makes disputing the chargeback viable. In cases like mc-market where you have absolutely no information about the buyer, you're more than likely to lose the chargeback as a seller because you cannot provide any legitimate proof against any claims the buyer makes.

I think this is the opposite. When you get a G&S chargeback you have an ability to make your case that your product was delivered in good condition. I’ve almost always win a G&S chargeback because I always include screenshots (with timestamps), pictures of transferring the product, etc.

With a F&F chargeback (unauthorized) it’s pretty almost impossible to win unless you have verified their identity which wouldn’t happen for many of the deals here. An unauthorized chargeback is slightly harder for a buyer to do, but I’ve lost the most amount of money this way.

You only get banned if you sell over 5k in F&F which makes this invalid as most people on this site don't make that much.

I received calls from PayPal as soon as I hit 1k in F&F and they basically drilled me on are you sure this is your friends, asked why it says it’s for a product (some buyers put memos in), and eventually it got my PayPal limited and permanently banned.

After getting a new PayPal account I did G&S for every transaction (minus some exceptions for example loans or investments) and I never received a call from PayPal or anything (making over 5k) and when people did chargeback, it was just part of the business and I’d win the majority of the cases. Yet, I sold software, tutorials/guides, hosting, and services along that nature. If you’re selling anything against PayPals TOS it would be a different circumstance. (Selling Minecraft Accounts breaks Minecraft EULA, which breaks PayPals TOS)

====

I’ve been lucky and barely had to deal with F&F on my time in Mc-Market. I’ve purchased GFX x4, Advertisement services x4, Hosting x2, Web Development x5, System Administration x2, Minecraft Server Setups, and Builds x2 and the only times I had to use F&F was for two discord ads (I even got a partial refund on one). Only time I was scammed was one web development guy but since I paid through G&S I won by showing all the conversations and lack of delivery.

Whatever payment method you use, scammers are scammers and you just have to deal cautiously.

 

[Candidates]

Paypal support sucks lol, thats all I gotta say about it. xD
Even if you have sufficient evidence, they still take SO FUCKING LONG TO RESPOND AND DISPUTE.
That is why I ask F&F payments unless I am under contract.

same w/ mcm

 

[BGHDDevelopment]

What I do is for anyone buying from me I allow G&S/ I will send a invoice they can pay automatically in G&S.
If you have a verified PayPal. In my case a Business PayPal you won’t have your account limited by chargebacks. For me I can fight any and so far have not lost any of them.

When I buy I ask for G&S and I am happy to show proof of why I would not chargeback. Why would I false chargeback on a PayPal account that has my business linked to it? Well I would not unless there was overwhelming proof.

I feel like G&S is a good thing, it’s just the past scamming that makes it bad for some people and makes them not trust it.

 

[StrafeZ]

idk if its just me but
for the past year or two i have sent say 3 or 4 payments of the size of $3 or so in F and F
Every other payment (In the hundreds) has been in goods and services
and the deal has either been successful or I have got my money back succesfully

Now look at the amount of "I NEED MONEY I GOT SCAMMED" Posts. Tell me how many people paid in f and f and got scammed compared to G and S. The difference will be quite big

 

[Conor McGregor]

Works both ways tbh, People on here use F&F for security because there is a lot of scammers on here. Plus if say someone is selling idk a 6k discord server for $50 and you do it through g&s then what's stopping them just returning the money back once you give them owner? F&F makes it harder for them to get the money back, But hey it depends if you're the buyer or seller. Sellers will probably want extra security so they use F&F and buyers want g&s to protect themselves also. Just check peoples rep and find info about them, Like if the account i was dealing with works for a professional hosting company for example, Then obviously its highly unlikely they will scam you but if you pay some account with no rep and "new member" using F&F then its on you really.

Buyers will say G&S is best but thats because it protects them and they can use that to their advantage

Sellers will say F&F because it protects them from scammers also.

Either way everyone will have mixed opinions depending on if you're a buyer or seller.

 

[Flipora]

Works both ways tbh, People on here use F&F for security because there is a lot of scammers on here. Plus if say someone is selling idk a 6k discord server for $50 and you do it through g&s then what's stopping them just returning the money back once you give them owner? F&F makes it harder for them to get the money back, But hey it depends if you're the buyer or seller. Sellers will probably want extra security so they use F&F and buyers want g&s to protect themselves also. Just check peoples rep and find info about them, Like if the account i was dealing with works for a professional hosting company for example, Then obviously its highly unlikely they will scam you but if you pay some account with no rep and "new member" using F&F then its on you really.

Buyers will say G&S is best but thats because it protects them and they can use that to their advantage

Sellers will say F&F because it protects them from scammers also.

Either way everyone will have mixed opinions depending on if you're a buyer or seller.

except the sellers are just wrong and breaking paypal TOS and lying for their own benefit.

as flat earthers said,

Good and services

Friends and families


should be self explanatory

 

[DeletedUser372845]

I think people should have the option for how they want to pay with PayPal. I mean if we had rules no one would listen to them anyways xD.