Forcing people to pay F&F should be bannable

[Flipora]

I personally think PayPal has a great system which is you can pay G&S if you are buying a good or service, and if you are scammed, you can chargeback. Something that bothers me is I see everyone forcing buyers to pay F&F. Unless you are a friend or family of the seller, that is against PayPal TOS and if you are legit, you should be fully equipt to defend against a chargeback if it comes up. This is the cause of 90% of the scams on MCM.

I think that forcing sellers to accept G&S (they would be allowed to ask for extra money for fees) would either: make dealing better for the buyer (because fewer scams would pass as the buyer would chargeback), or it would lead the MCM community away from PayPal and to another payment app/site (which would honestly be good too because PayPal is ass).

If you do use a agree/disagree reaction, I would love to hear your reasoning.

Edit: Argue your hearts out but this is not going to happen. Everyone is selfish and it is buyers vs sellers at this point no one gives a shit about what's right they want what's best for them (I can't blame them).

 

[Conor McGregor]

except the sellers are just wrong and breaking paypal TOS and lying for their own benefit.

as flat earthers said,

Good and services

Friends and families


should be self explanatory

Literally made no sense....Well if you want to go do G&S and have a kid take the money back once you give them say a discord ownership and discord wont do shit then you go do that buddy :tup:

 

[Flipora]

Literally made no sense....Well if you want to go do G&S and have a kid take the money back once you give them say a discord ownership and discord wont do shit then you go do that buddy :tup:

Just take a video of you transfering ownership literally could not be easier. The buyer gets screwed over much more than the seller, so why should the seller get all the protection on top of that?

 

[Conor McGregor]

Just take a video of you transfering ownership literally could not be easier. The buyer gets screwed over much more than the seller, so why should the seller get all the protection on top of that?

We're talking about PayPal here....i could video and screenshot etc and they still won't care or know what the hell i'm talking about XD

 

[Lotus]

except the sellers are just wrong and breaking paypal TOS and lying for their own benefit.

as flat earthers said,

Good and services

Friends and families


should be self explanatory

Then don’t accept the deal in the first place with those conditions. No one is holding you at gunpoint to transact through F&F.

I don’t understand why we should bother enforcing another platform’s TOS with no apparent benefit to us for this specific reason. It’s PayPal’s responsibility to enforce their own TOS. You as buyers and sellers are expected to abide by that.

MCM is simply a communication platform; in no way do we facilitate payment between you guys making us directly involved with PayPal and obliged to enforce their TOS for them. It is only when our interests coincide.

This is a marketplace. I’m not going to interfere with how people do business to the extent on how they prefer being paid. That will be an extreme annoyance for everyone in the market.

 

[punctured]

except the sellers are just wrong and breaking paypal TOS and lying for their own benefit.

as flat earthers said,

Good and services

Friends and families


should be self explanatory

so the sale of minecraft accounts should also be bannable? that breaks mojang’s terms of service.

 

[greysquirrels]

you can get your money back if you pay g&s if you say they didn't provide tracking. literally useless for buying virtual items.

 

[Norska]

you can get your money back if you pay g&s if you say they didn't provide tracking. literally useless for buying virtual items.

Completely false, you include and clearly state that it's a virtual product, combined with a solid TOS and you won't lose. There's also an option for sellers to clarify that the transacted good is virtual so I don't know where you got your whole perception from.

 

[greysquirrels]

Completely false, you include and clearly state that it's a virtual product, combined with a solid TOS and you won't lose. There's also an option for sellers to clarify that the transacted good is virtual so I don't know where you got your whole perception from.

barely anyone does that and some new users might not be educated about that so it's easy prey for scammers

 

[Flipora]

barely anyone does that and some new users might not be educated about that so it's easy prey for scammers

Absolutely not. What is easy prey for scammers is the F&F culture. That's what this is all about. Honestly, think about how many times you have been scammed as the seller vs how many times you've been scammed as the buyer. The buyer gets scammed WAY more, that's what this is all about, to protect the buyer.[DOUBLEPOST=1551270725][/DOUBLEPOST]

Then don’t accept the deal in the first place with those conditions. No one is holding you at gunpoint to transact through F&F.

I don’t understand why we should bother enforcing another platform’s TOS with no apparent benefit to us for this specific reason. It’s PayPal’s responsibility to enforce their own TOS. You as buyers and sellers are expected to abide by that.

MCM is simply a communication platform; in no way do we facilitate payment between you guys making us directly involved with PayPal and obliged to enforce their TOS for them. It is only when our interests coincide.

This is a marketplace. I’m not going to interfere with how people do business to the extent on how they prefer being paid. That will be an extreme annoyance for everyone in the market.

Its because your site started all this. You are encouraging scamming by doing this. This all happened because your site facilitates a safe space to lie to PayPal because you allow people to do this. Not only is it breaking PayPal TOS, but it just MAKES SENSE. It makes sense for the buyer to have protection as they almost always have to go first. The only real reason you have is "I don't feel like it", but this is much more important than lots of the useless rules you spend a lot of effort to enforce such as the 20 minute cooldown in the chatbox or when you remove people's positive rep because its not relevant enough. This has to do with a major amount of the scam reports on your site, and since this would reduce scams, you wouldn't have to deal with as many scam reports.

PS. No one is held at gunpoint to pay G&S, but if you want to do any deal on MCM, they almost always make you pay G&S so if you want most things on this site, you ARE forced to pay G&S

 

[Flipora]

I am sure that you would be held liable because you are intentionally and maliciously trying to screw someone over. Regardless of it being against PayPal’s TOS, it’s also against Mojang’s TOS to sell accounts and if someone sold an account then reported it to Mojang, the account would get locked and the person essentially scammed the user.

It is not good to screw someone out of money simply because they are breaking a term. If you are doing it because they are doing malicious intent, that would be different but people here are simply just trying to get money and there is no reason to screw someone over because they are doing something you don’t like.

Yea but no one gives a shit about mojang, PayPal TOS affects the buyers not paypal

 

[XMario]

This is something that the buyer decides. Buyer doesn't have to buy the product/service. If he doesn't like something, he shouldn't buy it. That simple.

 

[Flipora]

This is something that the buyer decides. Buyer doesn't have to buy the product/service. If he doesn't like something, he shouldn't buy it. That simple.

Many people have said that, I would recommend you go to my earlier replies of comments who said that for my counter argument to that.

 

[Aelin]

Let people do what they want, Jesus. We don’t need a rule for everything. It’s not MCM’s responsibility to keep us from breaking the TOS on other sites, and that doesn’t mean they are making a “safe space”, that just means they don’t want to dedicate resources to something that literally doesn’t effect them at all. At the end of the day, MCM is a business.

Also, I don’t know how often everyone has been scammed, but as a seller who conducts deals daily I’ve been scammed ALOT, and I’m one of the lucky ones from what I can gather with other artists around here. That doesn’t mean buyers don’t get scammed too, that just means they both should be able to choose their method of payment privately. Don’t force people into anything.

 

[Cabal]

Your reasoning is flawed. Scammers can easily cb on a purchase even when the seller sent the agreed on item.

Besides, fuck PayPal and fuck their terms of service. Any middle finger to PayPal is something I'll support.

 

[Satan]

What I do is for anyone buying from me I allow G&S/ I will send a invoice they can pay automatically in G&S.
If you have a verified PayPal. In my case a Business PayPal you won’t have your account limited by chargebacks. For me I can fight any and so far have not lost any of them.

When I buy I ask for G&S and I am happy to show proof of why I would not chargeback. Why would I false chargeback on a PayPal account that has my business linked to it? Well I would not unless there was overwhelming proof.

I feel like G&S is a good thing, it’s just the past scamming that makes it bad for some people and makes them not trust it.

Pretty sure if they bank chargeback, you can't win a paypal dispute regardless. You have to goto the other party's bank and sort it out outside of paypal.