Give people second chances [Appeal Bans]

[Venture]

We all make mistakes in our life and we have to build onto it, and so I think users should be able to appeal bans.

If it's a ban for breaking rules users can appeal and show why the ban should be lifted. They can give reasons on why they deserve a second chance and what they will improve on.

Now if the ban has something to do with scamming, I think a second chance should be given only if the scammed users gives an apology to the scammer. Also the scammer must return the goods scammed and also give reasons on why they should be unbanned.

I think people deserve second chances, and we aren't perfect -- we are all human and we make mistakes. Mistakes are what make us improve.

 

[UGaming]

YOYOYO. Anyways, I disagree with everything this suggestion has too offer. Give scammers another chance to scam? No way. Give rulebreakers another chance to rule-break, and even maybe scam? No. Not happening.

I agree with this.
Rule-breakers don't have to pay anything back. So they can come back and just scam due to the fact "Why not"

 

[UGaming]

I think they should be kept banned though, people won't learn and they will keep doing it.

Indeed.

About people changing.
Yeah some do.
But how do we prove they won't scam or harm the forum again?
There is no real telling.[DOUBLEPOST=1485800221][/DOUBLEPOST]Btw Venture
When people have a scam report against them.
They have the option to pay the person back.
If they didn't then, what makes you think they won't scam again when they do it now?

 

[Venture]

Indeed.

About people changing.
Yeah some do.
But how do we prove they won't scam or harm the forum again?
There is no real telling.[DOUBLEPOST=1485800221][/DOUBLEPOST]Btw Venture
When people have a scam report against them.
They have the option to pay the person back.
If they didn't then, what makes you think they won't scam again when they do it now?

Time.
I'm not saying they can appeal the day after they're banned.
I'm saying like a 6month period.

 

[Gunny]

Alot of "mistakes" here is people running off with other peoples money. The second chance stuff is what makes competitive markets filled with scammers.

A lot*

 

[Taiga]

A lot*

ok

 

[Doge]

You can appeal a ban if it was wrongfully given out. It's happened before with certain people who got shared IPs through mobile data or something and was sorted out.

But if they scammed someone? Nope. Once a scammer, always a scammer.

Perfect example is SSenile who was banned for scamming and excessively harassing certain people. He was going around messaging staff trying to get unbanned. I of course denied him, but someone who was fairly new at the time unbanned him. We discussed this, said that it shouldn't have been done, but now that he's unbanned, banning again wouldn't be good so we just left it at that and accepted the mistake. Of course a few months later he's banned for scamming AGAIN.

Coming back and feeling sorry for yourself isn't going to work. Once you scam, you are no longer wanted here end of story.

 

[UGaming]

But if they scammed someone? Nope. Once a scammer, always a scammer.

This is what I have been trying to point out.
VERY few people change.
And even then some go back to their ways.

 

[Jayson]

Oh wow! A second chance...hmm...i'll go ahead and scam this person then MCM staff will give me a second chance! Ezz free million dollar idea.

Orrrrrr

Oh yay! I can now freely harass people until I get banned. Then MCM staff will give me a second chance and i'll be free!

 

[y0jJJyeDYzRTYomFX]

I'm posting this on behalf of BuildBlox:


Alright, thank you to pwign for transferring this message for me. I'm glad this came up, it's been a while since it's been discussed.

Now, regarding bans, I don't typically have sympathy for scammers. As Doge mentioned, SSenile is a prime example of why these sort of things don't work. I know him personally, and I can tell you firsthand that he will never change the way he is. And hey, some people are just like that.

But what about the rule breakers? Why should something like a competitor advertisement that happened a year ago strike you and your account down forever? Yes, it was wrong. But people change during that time, and to not accept the reality and be stubborn instead is just foolish and immature.

In my latest ban appeal (there have been several) I brought up the concept of redemption. And I'm going to say the same thing I told BeBosny, and afterwards, to Mick:

"I don't claim that I didn't do anything wrong; but the concept of "redemption" was introduced to me at Minecon. Under Remade, I truly changed the person who I was. I was no longer a branded scumbag. I was trusted, professional, and understanding of others. I organized the lunch to prove that we are more than just a community. And when I was banned, the community stood up with me. Again, it's the concept of redemption that the users want to see. They realized that my actions can make up for my past. They realized that I was not just another SSenile or Chump. People make mistakes. But instead of either moving on or dwelling on the moment, we have to learn from them. And that is what I felt I precisely did."

While my argument made sense, I was immediately struck down with opposition; and to my surprise, it wasn't from Mick: it was from M6.

Now, M6 brought up the same point BeBosny did. This was his justification (and I quote):

"Your actions lead to consequences, and the consequence of that action was permanent at that time - I'm afraid you'll have to live with it."

M6, I'm pretty sure you've done something in the past you're regretting . And you even bring up a very valid point: I ban evaded like there was no tomorrow. Heck, who cares what I did as Remade: I'm still a ban evader, right?

No. You have to be stronger than that. If you don't have it in your heart to forgive, then MCM will fail. It's time for you to break this damned cycle. Ban the old, bring in the new. Welp, in a week or so, I'll barely know anyone on the site.

I think Mick understands what I am trying to say. But because M6Gaming just keeps getting in the way, I don't think any of this is going to play out correctly.

BuildBlox

 

[Ivain]

Pretty sure anyone who wasn't banned for scamming is allowed to submit an appeal, directly or indirectly.
If that appeal gets denied, too bad. Deal with it.

 

[Sloth]

Once a scammer, always a scammer. Please accept that fact. If one of your friends was banned for breaking the rules, guess what? They deserve it!

 

[Malek668]

Caveman

Once a scammer, always a scammer. Please accept that fact. If one of your friends was banned for breaking the rules, guess what? They deserve it!

 

[Venture]

"once a scammer, always a scammer" This is false -- People change, and yes not all people change and I agree, but that's why specific regulations should be put in place.

For one, I'm not saying they can scam and appeal the next day. That's obviously a weird attempt to scamming more.
I'm saying give time, no one is that desperate to wait 6 months and scam again... you can legit make an alt by using a VPN and scam again if the scammer is that desperate.

If the person who was the scammer has the strength to wait 6 months, and also refund the user he/she has scammed as well as give an apology to the person he/she has scammed. I think this is a sign of not only clearing there slate, but bravery and commitment. Yes it's rare that people commit these actions, but there are people who do this.

Another reason, is there are many factors that can lead to a user scamming. Whether they are young and don't understand to just angry at the moment, this is all possible.
But guess what? People age, and they grow. If you give it time, people have matured or aged and are probably cleaned/want to clear there slate.

"Once a scammer, always a scammer" is a false statement. People grow and people change and if the community lacks the brain cells to understand such a simple fact, then you shouldn't even be on this market.

 

[Sloth]

"once a scammer, always a scammer" This is false -- People change, and yes not all people change and I agree, but that's why specific regulations should be put in place.

For one, I'm not saying they can scam and appeal the next day. That's obviously a weird attempt to scamming more.
I'm saying give time, no one is that desperate to wait 6 months and scam again... you can legit make an alt by using a VPN and scam again if the scammer is that desperate.

If the person who was the scammer has the strength to wait 6 months, and also refund the user he/she has scammed as well as give an apology to the person he/she has scammed. I think this is a sign of not only clearing there slate, but bravery and commitment. Yes it's rare that people commit these actions, but there are people who do this.

Another reason, is there are many factors that can lead to a user scamming. Whether they are young and don't understand to just angry at the moment, this is all possible.
But guess what? People age, and they grow. If you give it time, people have matured or aged and are probably cleaned/want to clear there slate.

"Once a scammer, always a scammer" is a false statement. People grow and people change and if the community lacks the brain cells to understand such a simple fact, then you shouldn't even be on this market.

It's not really a false statement at all. You're right though, they're not going to wait 6 months in an attempt to get unbanned to show "bravery" and "commitment". They'll just move onto another site to scam, or like you said, use a VPN to scam on here. It actually makes me cringe that you consider returning items/money that were stolen a "brave" act. A person with bravery would resist the urge to scam and face whatever hardships come with that decision. Numerous users have lost hundreds of dollars, leading to negative balances in PayPal. Do they decide to scam? No. They move on, they work towards regaining a positive balance, despite how hard it might be.

 

[Tyler]

"once a scammer, always a scammer" This is false -- People change, and yes not all people change and I agree, but that's why specific regulations should be put in place.

For one, I'm not saying they can scam and appeal the next day. That's obviously a weird attempt to scamming more.
I'm saying give time, no one is that desperate to wait 6 months and scam again... you can legit make an alt by using a VPN and scam again if the scammer is that desperate.

If the person who was the scammer has the strength to wait 6 months, and also refund the user he/she has scammed as well as give an apology to the person he/she has scammed. I think this is a sign of not only clearing there slate, but bravery and commitment. Yes it's rare that people commit these actions, but there are people who do this.

Another reason, is there are many factors that can lead to a user scamming. Whether they are young and don't understand to just angry at the moment, this is all possible.
But guess what? People age, and they grow. If you give it time, people have matured or aged and are probably cleaned/want to clear there slate.

"Once a scammer, always a scammer" is a false statement. People grow and people change and if the community lacks the brain cells to understand such a simple fact, then you shouldn't even be on this market.

Based on how much you are backing up your claim I have a feeling you were previously banned or are defending a friend to try to get them unbanned.

If you were banned, you broke a rule. Appeals are already a thing, but why should a scammer get unbanned so they can just do it again? I agree, people do change, but you should have made the right decision while you weren't banned.

 

[frozenheat]

This already is a thing since I got banned and appealed on mcm

 

[Venture]

Based on how much you are backing up your claim I have a feeling you were previously banned or are defending a friend to try to get them unbanned.

If you were banned, you broke a rule. Appeals are already a thing, but why should a scammer get unbanned so they can just do it again? I agree, people do change, but you should have made the right decision while you weren't banned.

I'm not backing anyone, I'm stating my opinion/beliefs.