Prohibit "Emotional Support" Groups

[Landon]

See;
https://www.mc-market.org/threads/558089/
https://www.mc-market.org/threads/441178/
https://www.mc-market.org/threads/511216/

The idea behind "emotional support" groups seems brilliant. Provide users on the forum who are suffering with their own battles an outlet to talk to someone and get it off their chest. To get feedback and suggestions on what to do to counteract what they are going through.

Emotional support groups are a great idea when executed properly. However, the issue with these groups on MC-Market is that they are not accredited.

The issue with these groups on MC-Market, is that they are volunteers, just wanting to do good for the community. Which, like I said, I understand. However, there is a lot more than "wanting to help people!" that goes into dealing with emotional crises.

https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-by-the-numbers

1. 19.1% of U.S. adults experienced mental illness in 2018 (47.6 million people). This represents 1 in 5 adults.
2. 4.6% of U.S. adults experienced serious mental illness in 2018 (11.4 million people). This represents 1 in 25 adults.
3. 16.5% of U.S. youth aged 6-17 experienced a mental health disorder in 2016 (7.7 million people)
4. 3.7% of U.S. adults experienced a co-occurring substance use disorder and mental illness in 2018 (9.2 million people)

https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

1. Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the United States.
2. In 2017, 47,173 died by suicide.
3. In 2017, an estimated 1,400,000 attempted suicide.

Mental health is something that should be treated seriously by people with credited certification. Not something people are attempting to do for volunteer hours. It can literally be between life and death: Going to a MC-Market Emotional Support group with no certification or calling/chatting with the Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

Overall, I think MC-Market should prohibit these "emotional support" groups from offering their services. It is almost guaranteed that the volunteers have no certification, and that there is no strict client-confidentially enforced.

However, if a group can provide proof that their staff/volunteers are certified (ie; QPR Institute) and require their staff/volunteers to sign legal documents pertaining to confidentially, then they should be able to offer their services.

I don't think untrained groups should be attempting to provide support for emotional crises. Mental health is a legitimate problem, and as-so, should be taken seriously. Not something done for volunteer hours with no credible certification/confidentiality.

edit: I would like to make clear that I do not wish to prohibit simple peer-to-peer groups looking to provide users an outlet to rant and let out their emotions. There is a fine line between simple peer support and attempting to provide support for serious mental crises. Thanks!

 

[Sparko]

I agree, this is something I’ve been holding off in saying because I was scared of the potential backlash.

The volunteers have the possibility of going rouge or giving out advice that isn’t helpful, I guess that’s an alright thing if someone is aware they’re talking to a random fella from the internet but when it seems official because they’re from a “group” then someone might take what they say to heart more.

 

[undoneacc]

I agree, this is something I’ve been holding off in saying because I was scared of the potential backlash.

The volunteers have the possibility of going rouge or giving out advice that isn’t helpful, I guess that’s an alright thing if someone is aware they’re talking to a random fella from the internet but when it seems official because they’re from a “group” then someone might take what they say to heart more.

Literally same. I think they should leave it to the professionals. Having someone to talk to is one thing (such as a friend), but having mental health organisations could unintentionally mislead people.

 

[RileyN]

It's heartwarming that people are willing to offer help like that on a forum like this. I think the idea behind offering groups like this is brilliant, however, it can become a potential problem.

• There is no guarantee of confidentiality or privacy, these are third party startups that (are not forced) to follow any sort of regulation.
• The advice you're getting may not be accurate since the people involved have no license or degree in psychiatric assessments and treatments.

I don't think people should be able to offer services like this freely. On that note, I think it would be very cool for MCMarket's administration to reach out to a well known third party awareness/help service to perhaps get them involved with the community.

 

[Maddy]

Gruss used to own one; opinion?

 

[Gruss]

Gruss used to own one; opinion?

Thanks Maddy! I'm happy to comment on this, since I used to own weLISTEN.

Emotional support groups are a great idea when executed properly.

Completely agree with this statement.

As long as it is advertised that it is peer to peer support, but not professional advice, I personally think it is fine. On the one that I used to own, we required all of our support team members to agree to an NDA and we created our own training system. We put multiple disclaimers that it is simply a peer to peer support option (more like a friend who can talk and help you out), rather than professional advice.

There are a bunch of free professional support options out there (with professionals who have certifications), but many people want something different where they can talk to someone on a lower level.

I think there needs to be a clear distinction between professional help, and simply peer to peer help.

 

[Kavish]

I totally agree. Liability is one of the most difficult parts to certify when dealing with such topics. Mick or another Admin should vet such organizations before they are posted.[DOUBLEPOST=1580086598][/DOUBLEPOST]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an NDA doesn't seem like it would help in any way with this. How does an NDA keep people from going rouge?

Legal action can be taken against them.

 

[Kavish]

Yep, spend hundreds of dollars on taking that "legal action" is a thing that 99% of people aren't going to do, so... its useless imo.

Not really. In such a setting, going after it is very important. Even so, who would spend the effort to apply, go through tons of training and finally steal information that 99% of the time consists of someone's first name and their issue.

 

[Ren]

I was sort of into their organization due to the fact that they actually show some care for the community. However, with all of these statistics and thorough explanations that you've shown then I can definitely agree with this suggestion. It's a much safer approach as we have actual emotional support organizations in real life which are more than qualified to handle these kinds of situations that might occur.

 

[android.]

I'll just put this here. This suggestion gets an agree from me as well

I agree with good run on this one. Emotional support services, while they may offer some value, are a very big liability for everyone involved, and generally operate with volunteers that have not recieved proper training. I do unterstand that this could be useful for people in countries without suicide hotlines, but that should be left to actual nonprofits and NGOs that are subjected to regulations and are actually obligated by law to have qualified volunteers

[DOUBLEPOST=1580229605][/DOUBLEPOST]and also theyshouldn't be allowed to offer "Suicide Support" at all, even if their staff are qualified, unless they are a registered organization/company/nonprofit because of the liabilities

 

[Niteburn]

Yeah Mick I would avoid having these types of "non-profit organizations" on MC-Market because it's not gaming related or internet related at all. Most if not all of these "emotional support" service teams not registered as actual nonprofits. Also I would bet that all of the people on these teams are teenagers, not to mention that none of them are certified.

If someone managed to actually kill themselves, it's possible that the family could take action against people offering these services. They're not certified and not a registered non-profit. If the people want to go ahead and do this they can, but it shouldn't be on MCM.

EDIT: Joined the WeCare discord that offers emotional support for depression and all sorts of stuff and went to the "reviews" section. Some of the "agents" that are offering emotional support claim to be 15 years old. This is an absolute joke please ban these teams immediately. If people actually need emotional support they should reach out to professionals or family members.

 

[Kuchy]

I've been putting off a response to this suggestion for a while, mainly to see what everyone thought about it.


As much as I want to support the idea of helping others in need, I can't ignore the negative factors presented in this thread. The liability that these emotional support groups put on themselves is too high to be something presented on MC-Market. The thought that these emotional support groups, taking into account none of these volunteers - from my understanding - are trained and accredited therapists, could be the cause of a drastic event is concerning. If I was going through an emotional problem, I wouldn't be seeking emotional support on an online marketplace, even if there are users here willing to help me get through my crisis. Text messages DO NOT emphasize emotion, no matter how you word it and voice chats do not present empathy or attention as much as a trained Psychologist would in person.

Another concern is client confidentiality. I have no assurance that my information won’t be released publicly. When it comes to emotional support, the last thing the person needs is having everything they are going through be released publicly. Therapists often meet with their client(s) in a one-on-one, private environment. The client can express their crisis knowing that what is said is only known by the people present in the room, the therapist and the client. Without this assurance, psychotherapy would not be as effective.

There are emotional support groups that offer online support. What makes these groups different is that they are accredited. One example is the ADAA. They are noticed by multiple health programs and provide ways where you could get in touch with a Psychologist in your area. Along with that, they provide an online community, not a marketplace, directed towards offering emotional support.

Now, am I saying everyone volunteering in these MC-Market emotional support groups should cease helping anyone? No. I love knowing that people are willing to help others, I truly do. If someone, like a friend, is going through something, you should sit down and talk with them. Not on your phone or through text messages but sitting right there, in front of them, seeing each other eye-to-eye. If you are not with this person at the time, and they are calling/texting you, hear them out, entirely, and try to help them as best as you can, maybe try and meet with the person or encourage them to talk with their family about it. If you are not a trained therapist, the best thing you can do is advise them to meet one. Doing an online course or researching about emotional support is not called training.


Now, this is for the users who have been degrading/disrespecting these groups or are thinking of doing so. I'm not going to say names nor will I provide quotes of their messages. This is all I have to say:
DO NOT demean, degrade one's character, or disrespect someone for helping/offering to help another person. Not only is it inconsiderate, but this also makes these people think they shouldn't help anyone, ever, because all they would get is backlash from others. The worst thought of losing someone is knowing that you could have said/done something that could have helped prevent it. It's upsetting to hear there are people in this world that hate on people trying to help. Should they offer to help someone as a service? Probably not, unless they are trained Psychologists; however, this DOES NOT mean they shouldn't talk with the person, especially if it's someone close. More times than often, someone close to you will be upfront and will be willing to talk about what's going on. The best thing you can do is hear them out, understand what they are going through, and try and help them find a Psychologist to help them get through their problem(s). Provide support to the person throughout their therapy and help them in any way you can.

 

[Landon]

I've been putting off a response to this suggestion for a while, mainly to see what everyone thought about it.


As much as I want to support the idea of helping others in need, I can't ignore the negative factors presented in this thread. The liability that these emotional support groups put on themselves is too high to be something presented on MC-Market. The thought that these emotional support groups, taking into account none of these volunteers - from my understanding - are trained and accredited therapists, could be the cause of a drastic event is concerning. If I was going through an emotional problem, I wouldn't be seeking emotional support on an online marketplace, even if there are users here willing to help me get through my crisis. Text messages DO NOT emphasize emotion, no matter how you word it and voice chats do not present empathy or attention as much as a trained Psychologist would in person.

Another concern is client confidentiality. I have no assurance that my information won’t be released publicly. When it comes to emotional support, the last thing the person needs is having everything they are going through be released publicly. Therapists often meet with their client(s) in a one-on-one, private environment. The client can express their crisis knowing that what is said is only known by the people present in the room, the therapist and the client. Without this assurance, psychotherapy would not be as effective.

There are emotional support groups that offer online support. What makes these groups different is that they are accredited. One example is the ADAA. They are noticed by multiple health programs and provide ways where you could get in touch with a Psychologist in your area. Along with that, they provide an online community, not a marketplace, directed towards offering emotional support.

Now, am I saying everyone volunteering in these MC-Market emotional support groups should cease helping anyone? No. I love knowing that people are willing to help others, I truly do. If someone, like a friend, is going through something, you should sit down and talk with them. Not on your phone or through text messages but sitting right there, in front of them, seeing each other eye-to-eye. If you are not with this person at the time, and they are calling/texting you, hear them out, entirely, and try to help them as best as you can, maybe try and meet with the person or encourage them to talk with their family about it. If you are not a trained therapist, the best thing you can do is advise them to meet one. Doing an online course or researching about emotional support is not called training.


Now, this is for the users who have been degrading/disrespecting these groups or are thinking of doing so. I'm not going to say names nor will I provide quotes of their messages. This is all I have to say:
DO NOT demean, degrade one's character, or disrespect someone for helping/offering to help another person. Not only is it inconsiderate, but this also makes these people think they shouldn't help anyone, ever, because all they would get is backlash from others. The worst thought of losing someone is knowing that you could have said/do something to could help prevent it. It's upsetting to hear there are people in this world that hate on people trying to help. Should they offer to help someone as a service? Probably not, unless they are trained Psychologists; however, this DOES NOT mean they shouldn't talk with the person, especially if it's someone close. More times than often, someone close to you will be upfront and will be willing to talk about what's going on. The best thing you can do is hear them out, understand what they are going through, and try and help them find a Psychologist to help them get through their problem(s). Provide support to the person throughout their therapy and help them in any way you can.

Personally, I haven't been attempting to degrade anyone. I've been contacted by owner(s) of these groups, and I've let them know that my point is not to stop offering help to users. Peer-to-peer support for anxiety, and other minor things is great! It's when it's serious ordeals such as depression and suicide that it becomes an issue with groups like this offering their services. I don't think any group on MC-Market should be advertising as a way to get support for their depression or suicidal thoughts. Although wanting to provide support for people facing it is a genuine action, the repercussions can be massive.

 

[Satan]

I think a disclaimer should be put on these "emotional support groups" to simply be this.

1. We are volunteers, we are not certified professionals.
2. Confidentiality & privacy agreements/guarantees are not legally enforced on our group. But this is not to say that we will not try to uphold these standard practices ourselves.

That pretty much solves the negative consequences to allowing such groups to be advertised here.

 

[android.]

I think a disclaimer should be put on these "emotional support groups" to simply be this.

1. We are volunteers, we are not certified professionals.
2. Confidentiality & privacy agreements/guarantees are not legally enforced on our group. But this is not to say that we will not try to uphold these standard practices ourselves.

That pretty much solves the negative consequences to allowing such groups to be advertised here.

This doesn't solve the problem of these groups advertising "Suicide Support". If you take into account what actual emergency operators go through to be able to answer these calls, it's just ridiclous for them to be advertising this. Real emergency centers have actual trained staff that get background checks done regularly. Basically, I think a 3rd point should be added to your guidelines: "Advertising or offering suicide support is not permitted."

 

[Benzo999]

Plus I've seen threads of people asking for money to give emotional support.