Removing Loans. Exit Scamming and more..

[ZackIsTheBest]

Hello MCM Community! Today we're going to talk about the concept
"Exit Scamming"!

I'm pretty sure we all know what exit scamming is by now, if you don't, I'll give a short brief example.
Exit scamming is something people do when they

A. Decide they want to leave MCM, so they scam people before they do.
Or B
B. Scam as many people as possible with them knowing they will get banned in the next week or so.

-----

Anyway, the whole point of this thread is to show you people, ( Mick ) why the "Investments and Loans" Section should be removed, or why he should rename it to "Exit Scams & Scam Ideas".
Today, April 23th, I went out of my way, and I checked how easy it is to scam someone...

This is ALL it took.
1. Make a thread on the investments and Loans area.
2. Say that I need money for a website/to pay my dev
3. Post the thread and wait for replies.
4. Get replies, talk a bit bullsh*t, and give them my PayPal.

In about 10 minutes of me posting the thread, I've already received $50.
And more people willing to give me more money...

I GAVE THE DUDE HIS MONEY BACK, THIS WAS JUST AN EXPERIMENT.
I GAVE THE DUDE HIS MONEY BACK, THIS WAS JUST AN EXPERIMENT.

This just shows, how easy it is to exit scam, I'm not posting this for people to go out of their way to actually exit scam, try this, or whatever. This is just a suggestion to Mick to remove the dumb Investments and Loans section, because it's too easy of a way for people to get scammed.

I know, there are some legit people who actually do need loans, and do actually return money, but the odds of actually finding a legit person who does this, is 1/100...

I'm not saying people are too gullible, or stuff like that.
IF This suggestion on removing the "Investments and loans" thread area doesn't get removed. I want people to know this.
Just because someone has good rep, alot of vouches, or even supreme, you should still do more research into the person before sending him/her money, and never send a loan on F&F...

Mick REMOVE THE INVESTMENTS AND LOANS AREA!!!!

I'll be PMing the dude I did this on and I will be telling him I posted this.

People planning to exit scam will disagree with this thread



Buy my sh^t https://sellfy.com/2Lips





​

 

[Ajdin]

Did you not read what I just said

No, because your formatting and wording is cluttered and very unpleasant to read.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

No, because your formatting and wording is cluttered and very unpleasant to read.

If you're not gonna read it then don't even reply...

 

[AboveScore]

I'm not really sure what being underage and having a bank account have to do with each other? Unless in the US you can't have a bank account without being 18?

You can have a bank account under 18 (here in the US). As long as a parent/guardian signs as its manager. I believe it is a checking account you can't have under 18.

 

[Ajdin]

If you're not gonna read it then don't even reply...

I don't need to read the whole confusing thread to know the goal of this suggestion.

You're trying to get an extremely active section removed for the sole reason that members are not careful enough during a deal.

People who have been here for +2 years do deals on a daily basis in various sections (including the loan & investments sections) and just know when someone obviously looks like a scammer. It's extremely obvious when someone is sketchy.

If you're a little hesitant about giving out a loan or investment, don't do it?

I don't like the section either. I think it's stupid and lame but it keeps the cashflow up, encourages business and gives other members the opportunity to get funds if needed.

I'm an investor too, not on MCM though. The only reason I'm not is because about 99% of the members doesn't know how to represent their idea/business plan properly. And the 1% that is capable of representing an idea has an idea that isn't unique and has no potential.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

I don't need to read the whole confusing thread to know the goal of this suggestion.

You're trying to get an extremely active section removed for the sole reason that members are not careful enough during a deal.

People who have been here for +2 years do deals on a daily basis in various sections (including the loan & investments sections) and just know when someone obviously looks like a scammer. It's extremely obvious when someone is sketchy.

If you're a little hesitant about giving out a loan or investment, don't do it?

I don't like the section either. I think it's stupid and lame but it keeps the cashflow up, encourages business and gives other members the opportunity to get funds if needed.

I'm an investor too, not on MCM though. The only reason I'm not is because about 99% of the members doesn't know how to represent their idea/business plan properly. And the 1% that is capable of representing an idea has an idea that isn't unique and has no potential.

What's it matter how long a member as been here? I'm pretty sure members who have been here for a while have exit scammed. And again.. Read it all.

 

[Ajdin]

What's it matter how long a member as been here? I'm pretty sure members who have been here for a while have exit scammed. And again.. Read it all.

I did read your thread when you started the argument and you have no idea what you're talking about lol.

I'm not saying people are too gullible, or stuff like that.

This is exactly my point. If you look at my previous response, this is what I'm saying. People on this forum are too gullible. They think money comes out of nowhere and don't know how to look into investments/loans and end up getting scammed. I don't think you should close down an entire market because of this since you're punishing the smart people who make a good amount of money out of this.

Instead of saying "plz go read thred", what about actually countering and convincing the members because that's how you get a suggestion accepted. Mick isn't going to accept your suggestion if everyone is against your idea. Or if you have a shitty thread. This is also the reason for your high amount of disagrees. People see the cluttered thread and turn away from reading and just give their opinion based off the thread title. Your thread contains information everyone else already knows. If everyone else knows all this information, why wasn't this suggested earlier? Because it's a terrible suggestion the way it's currently displayed without any good arguments.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

I did read your thread when you started the argument and you have no idea what you're talking about lol.


This is exactly my point. If you look at my previous response, this is what I'm saying. People on this forum are too gullible. They think money comes out of nowhere and don't know how to look into investments/loans and end up getting scammed. I don't think you should close down an entire market because of this since you're punishing the smart people who make a good amount of money out of this.

Instead of saying "plz go read thred", what about actually countering and convincing the members because that's how you get a suggestion accepted. Mick isn't going to accept your suggestion if everyone is against your idea. Or if you have a shitty thread. This is also the reason for your high amount of disagrees. People see the cluttered thread and turn away from reading and just give their opinion based off the thread title. Your thread contains information everyone else already knows. If everyone else knows all this information, why wasn't this suggested earlier? Because it's a terrible suggestion the way it's currently displayed without any good arguments.

What's the name of this section "Suggestions area" I know it most likely won't get accept, I just like seeing people's post of view of things. Also, I kinda said people are gullible..? Besides, PayPal doesn't support Loans anymore, and I'm pretty sure I never said it like "plz go read thred". I'm aware Mick isn't going to remove a whole section, because the Loans area gives his website traffic just like any other section, and it's in fair use. Next time before commenting on someones thread, plz go read thred.

 

[Ajdin]

What's the name of this section "Suggestions area" I know it most likely won't get accept, I just like seeing people's post of view of things. Also, I kinda said people are gullible..? Besides, PayPal doesn't support Loans anymore, and I'm pretty sure I never said it like "plz go read thred". I'm aware Mick isn't going to remove a whole section, because the Loans area gives his website traffic just like any other section, and it's in fair use. Next time before commenting on someones thread, plz go read thred.

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any sort of common sense?

I know it most likely won't get accept, I just like seeing people's post of view of things.

Okay, so what is this?

Mick REMOVE THE INVESTMENTS AND LOANS AREA!!!!

If you want opinions or views, post a thread in the general discussion section. Not the official suggestion section where Mick has to read all the threads and responses to make a decision.

Also, I kinda said people are gullible..?

No, you didn't? In fact, you said the exact opposite as I stated above:

I'm not saying people are too gullible, or stuff like that.

Besides, PayPal doesn't support Loans anymore

So? What does this have to do with anything? PayPal is just a payment processor. Life can go on without their shitty customer support which is probably a fully automated algorithm.

I'm pretty sure I never said it like "plz go read thred"

?

I'm aware Mick isn't going to remove a whole section, because the Loans area gives his website traffic just like any other section

Just because a section delivers website traffic doesn't mean it shouldn't be removed.

Your logic is so stupid it's entertaining to read lol. You've once again missed my whole point of my previous response.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any sort of common sense?


Okay, so what is this?


If you want opinions or views, post a thread in the general discussion section. Not the official suggestion section where Mick has to read all the threads and responses to make a decision.


No, you didn't? In fact, you said the exact opposite as I stated above:



So? What does this have to do with anything? PayPal is just a payment processor. Life can go on without their shitty customer support which is probably a fully automated algorithm.


?


Just because a section delivers website traffic doesn't mean it shouldn't be removed.

Your logic is so stupid it's entertaining to read lol. You've once again missed my whole point of my previous response.

You make me think you're planning on exit scamming soon so you're gonna trash this as much as possible

 

[Ivain]

What's it matter how long a member as been here? I'm pretty sure members who have been here for a while have exit scammed. And again.. Read it all.

Yes, people who have been here a long time have exit scammed. That's pretty much the definition.

The whole point I've been trying to make is that no matter what you do, exit scammers are nearly unstoppable. If your goal is to stop exit scammers, you'll have to shut down the entire site.
The idea of an exit scammer is that it's a formerly reputable member who is done with the site and decides to make some final cash at the cost of others, because they won't be there anymore anyway. The only way to discover them is if they're either slow, or they're foolish about how they do it.
Anyone with skill can and WILL succeed in exit-scamming. Why? because there's always people who aren't keeping to the precautions.
If you closed down loans, they'd just move on to some other section, claim to have found some great resources that fit that section.
They'd do a lot of deals, use their reputation to get people to pay part of the money ahead, and when the time comes they'd scram.
Closing down a specific section won't help for shit.
As for loans specifically, my personal advice is to not give any loans to someone who still has a loan open. Most exit scammers using loans will try to get as many as possible at once before leaving.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

Yes, people who have been here a long time have exit scammed. That's pretty much the definition.

The whole point I've been trying to make is that no matter what you do, exit scammers are nearly unstoppable. If your goal is to stop exit scammers, you'll have to shut down the entire site.
The idea of an exit scammer is that it's a formerly reputable member who is done with the site and decides to make some final cash at the cost of others, because they won't be there anymore anyway. The only way to discover them is if they're either slow, or they're foolish about how they do it.
Anyone with skill can and WILL succeed in exit-scamming. Why? because there's always people who aren't keeping to the precautions.
If you closed down loans, they'd just move on to some other section, claim to have found some great resources that fit that section.
They'd do a lot of deals, use their reputation to get people to pay part of the money ahead, and when the time comes they'd scram.
Closing down a specific section won't help for shit.
As for loans specifically, my personal advice is to not give any loans to someone who still has a loan open. Most exit scammers using loans will try to get as many as possible at once before leaving.

The point of this isn't to stop exit scamming, I know it won't be stopped. The point is it lower it, it's much harder to scam with builds and accounts then it is with loans.

 

[Ivain]

The point of this isn't to stop exit scamming, I know it won't be stopped. The point is it lower it, it's much harder to scam with builds and accounts then it is with loans.

Oh? and how, exactly? And no, it won't lower it significantly. It just means the scammer will have to plan for a little longer to pull off the scam. I've made a low-key study of scammers, both online and IRL. The lengths they can go to will amaze you.
What you're suggesting is to remove a section that basically keeps the cash flowing. Tell me, how many of the scam reports are because of loans? right now, there's a SINGLE scam report about loans. it's worth $10-15. The rest are graphics, accounts, setups, servers, steam accounts, plugins, builds, etc etc etc.
If you dig through the past scam reports, you might find a few more. However, it is my experience that since the loans section was restricted, the amount of scams has gone down drastically. There's now more scams in the plugin, setup or account business than there are in loans. Would you suggest to close these down too, to reduce the amount of scams?

Let's give you a story of the last time someone closed a section because of scams.
This was the Minecraft Accounts section. It used to be there were 3+ pages of scam reports, and 3 scam resolvers, not just one. An overlarge majority of these were about minecraft accounts, OG's, Semis, cape accounts, rank accounts, FA accounts, alts, you name it.
then at some point it was closed (I do not remember the exact timing). It may have been because of scams, or because of Mojang doing something or saying something (accounts being locked? Idk if that was the same timing).
What I do remember is that I breathed a sigh of relief, because a lot of toxic behaviour was associated with the account section, and with it gone the toxic shit decreased drastically.
However, it soon became clear the site wasn't growing as quickly. Income was lessening, both for the site and for its users. There would be weeks where only a few new threads were made in some sections like builds, instead of several each day. Why? because accounts were part of the life of this site, whether I liked it or not. When it was announced, even before it was implemented, users started returning, and new ones joined more frequently again.
So after a while, the accounts section returned. But fortunately, not in its old shape. We'd learned from that problem. Accounts could now only be sold if associated with your account, and only "special" accounts, no FA or alt accounts.
This has definitely worked, since the amount of scams is now super-low compared to before.

The Loans section was, in the past, definitely a source of a lot of scams. A 'new' user would come on, get some loans from some fools there, fail to pay it back and get banned. Then they'd use a VPN to make a new account and repeated the process.

Now, you have to have an account age of at least 3 months, and a significant number of posts to even be able to post there.
I daresay loan givers have their own standards as well.
As a result, the amount of scams connected to loans dropped through the floor. they're still there, but not nearly as close.
And exit scams, the thing you are so concerned about, are not nearly as common as they may seem. It's not like a trusted and reputable user decides to leave the site and scam each day. This is a thing that happens once a month on average, and some of them are simply pathetic. The last 'successful' exit scam I remember was several months ago, for several hundred. People learned from that, and the methods he used are unlikely to work again.

The thing is that what you're suggesting is not going to improve the site, however weird it may sound. As one builder to another, let me make you think about what would happen if people could no longer loan the money needed to start up a server. Both of our businesses would seriously suffer (yours more so than mine, since I have quite the network outside this site as well, which is the main source of my income). And for what? to slightly reduce the number of scams that fools offering loans (which is known to be a risky business) could get scammed a little less.

It's not gonna happen. It's that simple. You're not gonna succeed in convincing me, so your chances of convincing Mick (whose income is bound directly to this site, unlike mine which is bound only loosely) are not exactly large either.

What I would do instead is think of new ways in which loan givers or the site can prevent scams WITHOUT closing down the sections that it happens in.
If a city block is full of thieves and muggers, do you demolish the city block? no, you look for ways to lower the criminality, realizing that you will never eliminate it entirely.

 

[ZackIsTheBest]

Oh? and how, exactly? And no, it won't lower it significantly. It just means the scammer will have to plan for a little longer to pull off the scam. I've made a low-key study of scammers, both online and IRL. The lengths they can go to will amaze you.
What you're suggesting is to remove a section that basically keeps the cash flowing. Tell me, how many of the scam reports are because of loans? right now, there's a SINGLE scam report about loans. it's worth $10-15. The rest are graphics, accounts, setups, servers, steam accounts, plugins, builds, etc etc etc.
If you dig through the past scam reports, you might find a few more. However, it is my experience that since the loans section was restricted, the amount of scams has gone down drastically. There's now more scams in the plugin, setup or account business than there are in loans. Would you suggest to close these down too, to reduce the amount of scams?

Let's give you a story of the last time someone closed a section because of scams.
This was the Minecraft Accounts section. It used to be there were 3+ pages of scam reports, and 3 scam resolvers, not just one. An overlarge majority of these were about minecraft accounts, OG's, Semis, cape accounts, rank accounts, FA accounts, alts, you name it.
then at some point it was closed (I do not remember the exact timing). It may have been because of scams, or because of Mojang doing something or saying something (accounts being locked? Idk if that was the same timing).
What I do remember is that I breathed a sigh of relief, because a lot of toxic behaviour was associated with the account section, and with it gone the toxic shit decreased drastically.
However, it soon became clear the site wasn't growing as quickly. Income was lessening, both for the site and for its users. There would be weeks where only a few new threads were made in some sections like builds, instead of several each day. Why? because accounts were part of the life of this site, whether I liked it or not. When it was announced, even before it was implemented, users started returning, and new ones joined more frequently again.
So after a while, the accounts section returned. But fortunately, not in its old shape. We'd learned from that problem. Accounts could now only be sold if associated with your account, and only "special" accounts, no FA or alt accounts.
This has definitely worked, since the amount of scams is now super-low compared to before.

The Loans section was, in the past, definitely a source of a lot of scams. A 'new' user would come on, get some loans from some fools there, fail to pay it back and get banned. Then they'd use a VPN to make a new account and repeated the process.

Now, you have to have an account age of at least 3 months, and a significant number of posts to even be able to post there.
I daresay loan givers have their own standards as well.
As a result, the amount of scams connected to loans dropped through the floor. they're still there, but not nearly as close.
And exit scams, the thing you are so concerned about, are not nearly as common as they may seem. It's not like a trusted and reputable user decides to leave the site and scam each day. This is a thing that happens once a month on average, and some of them are simply pathetic. The last 'successful' exit scam I remember was several months ago, for several hundred. People learned from that, and the methods he used are unlikely to work again.

The thing is that what you're suggesting is not going to improve the site, however weird it may sound. As one builder to another, let me make you think about what would happen if people could no longer loan the money needed to start up a server. Both of our businesses would seriously suffer (yours more so than mine, since I have quite the network outside this site as well, which is the main source of my income). And for what? to slightly reduce the number of scams that fools offering loans (which is known to be a risky business) could get scammed a little less.

It's not gonna happen. It's that simple. You're not gonna succeed in convincing me, so your chances of convincing Mick (whose income is bound directly to this site, unlike mine which is bound only loosely) are not exactly large either.

What I would do instead is think of new ways in which loan givers or the site can prevent scams WITHOUT closing down the sections that it happens in.
If a city block is full of thieves and muggers, do you demolish the city block? no, you look for ways to lower the criminality, realizing that you will never eliminate it entirely.

I'm not even gonna read all that.. I'm just gonna agree but I don't wanna type. And I know this thread isn't gonna get accepted. I just want ppl to kinda take more precaution when they do loans because it's easy to get scammed there.

 

[Mick]

Like others have said it is very easy to exit scam in all sections of the site, not just loans and we aren't going to remove the system. Taking extra precautions with loans is always a good idea, but it's simply impossible to eliminate exit scammers entirely.

Thank you very much for the suggestion, I can imagine that you made it despite knowing that you'd get disagrees to prove your point.

Denied, thanks.