Scam reports

[Ajdin]

Hello,

There have been more and more scam reports lately. Many of these have been going via Skype. People have been using Skype a lot to make deals with mainly because it's easy to use, everyone has it and messages get sent and delivered instantly.

Skype has plenty of downsides too, especially when they are used as proof with scam reports.

No matter what kind of proof you provide, it's all fake-able in some sort. Videos, gifs, screenshots: All can be faked, it might all take time but it can be faked.

Therefore I think all deals should be done via PM. If they are not done via PM, the deal shouldn't be eligible for a scam report.

This would also decrease the amount of impersonators, skype jackers(my skype got jacked) and so on.

Most of you think: real issue with this is: The PM system is disgusting to use compared to Skype. It's not instant.

Well, is it worth? Is it worth risking money to be able to talk with a potential scammer in a better way? If anything, MCM could look into getting a IM addon. Many of these are available. Somewhat like Facebook's chat but for Xenforo.

If that doesn't interest you, you could approach it in a different way and use Slack or Discord. Sure, it requires some management but both have a feature where you can create invites for single users and they can sign up for it.

I've seen some Minecraft servers and other forums use it and it's a great way to communicate. However most of these applications allow editing of messages and screenshots can still be faked so I suggest staying with a on-site alike system.

This should be considered and thought about carefully.

For those of you who don't know what Slack or Discord is. They are both skype-alike programs but made for communities or companies. They allow PM'ing users and creating channels. Discord even allows communication over voice. I use both for other projects and they are both great. Discord is becoming more and more popular amongst gamers.
Both of these are safe and your IP cannot get resolved unlike Skype.

Thanks to nara~kavi for coming up with the original idea.

Edit: If you're voting, I'd love to see some input anyways. Especially to those who don't want anything changed.

 

[montyburly]

I think this is a good idea. The only issue I can see is that MCM kind of has to deal with Skype scams whether they like it or not. If someone on this site scams on Skype, we can't just not allow the victim to report it because then the thief can go around scamming again. I agree that deals should have to be conducted through the site and that there should be an easy IM system added to discourage Skype transcations.

 

[Ajdin]

I just require a simple verification check when dealing with users on skype !

Many do, yet people get scammed by impersonation.

I also highly doubt you've read the thread completely, impersonation is not the topic here.[DOUBLEPOST=1451156525,1451156245][/DOUBLEPOST]By doing this:

an easy IM system added to discourage Skype

You're solving this:

MCM kind of has to deal with Skype scams

You're right. People would still continue and use Skype simply because there is no alternative.

 

[nara~kavi]

My biggest issue with the IM system is that I feel it could be abused for harassment/annoying people. Monty & I get a lot of sexual harassment on this website and I feel like with an IM system people would just bother us with that shit all the time, or try to be social with us rather than just contacting us for business.

I could see people that dislike us making alts on VPN's to spam us and harass us, which is one of the primary reasons we don't use Skype anymore. People set up bots that would add us and spam us with "LESBIAN CUNTS" and such.

I'd like for there to be an IM system, but I'd like for it to be very well implemented and integrated with the PM system, and I'd like there to be a zero tolerance policy for shit like I just described, and for there to be something there to prevent abuse like what I just mentioned.

Monty & I do all of our deals over PM's and generally speaking there's not been any real issues with it. Most deals just require two-three PM's to complete and I for one find it faster/easier to do deals over PM's rather than Skype because on Skype people always tried to make a business transaction into a social conversation. We are here for business, and that's pretty much it. It's pretty easy to just conduct business over PM's.

I definitely agree that Skype and outside programs should not be covered under scam reports though, as they're easily fakeable and in general deals made outside of the website don't really relate to MC-Market itself. It would also eliminate a lot of the impersonation scams.

 

[Ajdin]

I could see people that dislike us making alts on VPN's to spam us and harass us

All the IM services listed above allow the creation of single use invites. That's 1 invite per member. I'm pretty sure there's a API on Slack which allows this to be done automatically. It would require time and resources but this could all be setup and done with some will.

 

[Tofty]

An IM system would be great IMO.

 

[nara~kavi]

Monty & I think that something that would help with the PM situation would be lowering the cooldown on PM messages to like 10 seconds, and 5 seconds for Supreme members.

This would help the PM system feel less clunky and make it so people can more quickly converse with one another over the system.

If the PM system also had something like an auto-refresher on the page it'd pretty much be an instant message platform at that point.

 

[TellingMom]

Discord isn't the best of ideas. Someone could pose as someone else and because the IP can't be verified, there is no way to know if you're dealing with the real person, or someone pretending. Also it adds an unnecessary extra layer to things. All that's needed is a policy to make all dealing mandatory on the site.[DOUBLEPOST=1451158679,1451157770][/DOUBLEPOST]

ffa. trust people or don't trust. no scam reports. people will just alt and shit. No point in reports.

I agree to you too some degree. Personal accountability is a big thing I believe in. Buuuuuuuut, that would be chaos here.

 

[Justis]

I'm in agreement with what montyburly has said,
Introducing another viable method of communication between users should be done.
I made a suggestion for reducing the time in pms or implementing a live messenger, over a month ago. http://www.mc-market.org/threads/47762/ Describing the problems with how it's current refresh rate, and message cooldown restrict us.
I've long since wanted to see this implemented, just due to the benefits it would provide.

However, Skype users should never be abandoned.
Skype is, as you said, universal. 'Everyone' has it.
On phones, on the computer, Skype is an instant messaging platform that has had so many years of development, by professionals, for everyone; and it's worked it's way into our lives as much as motor vehicles.

It is the preferred method of communication for people who actually like to get to know who they're dealing with before dealing with them, while dealing with them, or after.

Make no mistake.
Contrary to what nara~kavi might suggest...
Business has, and always will be about communication. Relationships.

You don't get anywhere in life by burning all your bridges as soon as you build them.
You maintain contact with the people you work with, and they with you.
It makes you stronger, expands your resources... Who you know, is everything.
It is.

Skype, having been implemented in our lives so seamlessly, is currently the best way to achieve this.

Demanding that Skype users should not be allowed the same support or recognition regarding scam reports is outrageous.
While, yes it is almost certainly the best way to solve impersonation, false evidence, etc..... It comes at too high a cost.

Handicapping everyone who's made Skype their arms, legs, and mouth.
Forcing them to adopt a sort of crutch, forcing them to use an alternative such as Slack, or Discord, etc.
And... If we want to maintain the principles of business relationships...
Burn those alt com methods into our lives as well.

Skype needs to be supported.
For those of us that need Skype.

However, instead of limiting the options we have, providing more, such as a better instant messaging system, or close integration of the website with Slack or other... That's a good idea.
It would provide benefits that Skype cannot offer, while still leaving that open to us.

This would not eliminate scams, nor the need for scam reports...
But it would provide us with the tools and resources necessary to make sure that we can, for the most part, avoid them if we choose.
Which has always been the goal.

 

[Doge]

I completely agree. No more impersonation or forging of evidence. A built in IM system would be the perfect alternative to Skype.

ffa. trust people or don't trust. no scam reports. people will just alt and shit. No point in reports.

Yeah, leave scammers unpunished. Brilliant! If they alt, they get banned again and eventually they just give up and move on. As simple as that.

 

[nara~kavi]

I'm in agreement with what montyburly has said,
Introducing another viable method of communication between users should be done.
I made a suggestion for reducing the time in pms or implementing a live messenger, over a month ago. http://www.mc-market.org/threads/47762/ Describing the problems with how it's current refresh rate, and message cooldown restrict us.
I've long since wanted to see this implemented, just due to the benefits it would provide.

However, Skype users should never be abandoned.
Skype is, as you said, universal. 'Everyone' has it.
On phones, on the computer, Skype is an instant messaging platform that has had so many years of development, by professionals, for everyone; and it's worked it's way into our lives as much as motor vehicles.

It is the preferred method of communication for people who actually like to get to know who they're dealing with before dealing with them, while dealing with them, or after.

Make no mistake.
Contrary to what nara~kavi might suggest...
Business has, and always will be about communication. Relationships.

You don't get anywhere in life by burning all your bridges as soon as you build them.
You maintain contact with the people you work with, and they with you.
It makes you stronger, expands your resources... Who you know, is everything.
It is.

Skype, having been implemented in our lives so seamlessly, is currently the best way to achieve this.

Demanding that Skype users should not be allowed the same support or recognition regarding scam reports is outrageous.
While, yes it is almost certainly the best way to solve impersonation, false evidence, etc..... It comes at too high a cost.

Handicapping everyone who's made Skype their arms, legs, and mouth.
Forcing them to adopt a sort of crutch, forcing them to use an alternative such as Slack, or Discord, etc.
And... If we want to maintain the principles of business relationships...
Burn those alt com methods into our lives as well.

Skype needs to be supported.
For those of us that need Skype.

However, instead of limiting the options we have, providing more, such as a better instant messaging system, or close integration of the website with Slack or other... That's a good idea.
It would provide benefits that Skype cannot offer, while still leaving that open to us.

This would not eliminate scams, nor the need for scam reports...
But it would provide us with the tools and resources necessary to make sure that we can, for the most part, avoid them if we choose.
Which has always been the goal.

Monty, Doge., and I don't use Skype, and we're three of the most high-profile members on the website. So clearly it's not universal.

 

[TellingMom]

I think most if not all staff agree that people shouldn't use Skype for deals. For all the reasons BeBos listed and just because it makes life harder. If we want to verify something said in PM, we can just ask you to report it and we can see it then. It's so much easier.

While I agree with BeBos in saying people shouldn't use Skype, it's something people decide to do and the best we can do is provide an alternative but not force people not to use Skype as that's impossible to do.

We have never recommended using Skype and still do not.

No offense, but that's just a blow off response. Fix the problem, that's what we want. You guys don't seem to have a solution, and your own users have suggested several valid ones. It's not impossible at all. It's really quite simple... You change the policy to make it mandatory to have deals done here exclusively or they can't post a scam report. There is a reason Ebay makes users conduct all business on Ebay. They can't be liable for trades happening off site, and they don't have to waste resources trying to validate something they can't.

 

[Ajdin]

What would you like me to say? We don't recommend using Skype and I clearly stated we should be trying to influence people to stay on the site to conduct deals. Which endorses new things like IM features on the site.

I'm sorry my response does not meet your standards sir, please forgive me for not being perfect in my response. Considering this isn't even your post, I don't know why you are judging the quality of posts, surely that's up to the Mods and OP..

Someone clearly didn't get what they wanted for christmas...

Mick & K3 deal with suggestions, I cannot tell someone their suggestion is approved or will happen as I cannot do that. As stated above, I endorse all the suggestions made. We need to make some changes and it's very heartwarming to see people wanting to help and throwing out their own ideas.

Jesus Anthony, it seems like you didn't get your presents either but it's not Christmas for everyone, right?

He probably meant that you didn't give final answer to the suggestion. Everyone knows that Mick deals with that but that's still no reason to be so arrogant.

You'd expect different from a staff member.

 

[nara~kavi]

What would you like me to say? We don't recommend using Skype and I clearly stated we should be trying to influence people to stay on the site to conduct deals. Which endorses new things like IM features on the site.

I'm sorry my response does not meet your standards sir, please forgive me for not being perfect in my response. Considering this isn't even your post, I don't know why you are judging the quality of posts, surely that's up to the Mods and OP..

Someone clearly didn't get what they wanted for christmas...

Mick & K3 deal with suggestions, I cannot tell someone their suggestion is approved or will happen as I cannot do that. As stated above, I endorse all the suggestions made. We need to make some changes and it's very heartwarming to see people wanting to help and throwing out their own ideas.

Just the last part of that message was really needed. ^_^

You guys just give ammunition to your detractors when you respond like that, lol.

 

[Ajdin]

Just the last part of that message was really needed. ^_^

You guys just give ammunition to your detractors when you respond like that, lol.

Not 'you guys'. Only VERY few select staff members but oh well...

 

[Nagi]

I would imagine that a cool Instant Messaging system like Enjin would be pretty badass! :3 Great idea!