Some clarification of rule 1.1 and a question.

[buildblox]

​

We all are aware that illegal activities are not allowed here, correct? We're all aware that is a violation of our TOS? I certainly hope you're aware of that.
We're also aware that rule 1.1 forbids the encouragement of the violation of our TOS, yes?

Encouragement, by definition means to give support.

A few members and I had a disagreement today, they claimed flaunting your illegal activities was not a violation of rule 1.1 after I verbally warned several people for supporting/encouraging the cracking of paid content and DDoSing, when they stated that they crack paid content and DDoS people 24 hours at a time, respectively.

One member seemed a bit confused, making the comparison, "If I say someone raped a 3 year old girl yesterday, would I be warned for violating rule 1.1"?
Just to clarify, no. Not necessarily. Though it certainly depends on the context.
However, if you were to say "I raped a 3 year old girl yesterday", yes you would be warned, because you are supporting that activity by stating that you engage in the activity.
Engaging in an activity is an implied support for it, and that is how it is enforced.

We do not want our members supporting/encouraging illegal activities on our forums.
Yes, stating you engage in illegal activities is considered a form of encouragement.
I always thought this was obvious, but apparently a few members are not only confused, but in complete disagreement, stating that it shouldn't be considered encouragement/support at all and should be allowed.

I'd like everyone's opinions on this if possible.

While I may misunderstand, I feel this thread is pointed more towards the encouragement of DDoSing/Doxing/Cracking rather than subjects like rape and drugs. As such, perhaps the rule should be amended or branched to incorporate those specific offenses, rather than just overall punishment for 'illegal' encouragement.

Perhaps removing the whole "I raped a 3 year old girl yesterday" may be a better way to bring forth your point. I know you said it was a specific example given to you from a member, but the thread is moving in a direction that probably isn't what you intended.

EDIT: Plus, now Devon has something to put in his signature :rekt:

 

[Devon]

While I may misunderstand, I feel this thread is pointed more towards the encouragement of DDoSing/Doxing rather than subjects like rape and drugs. As such, perhaps the rule should be amended or branched to incorporate those specific offenses, rather than just overall punishment for 'illegal' encouragement.

Perhaps removing the whole "I raped a 3 year old girl yesterday" may be a better way to bring forth your point. I know you said it was a specific example given to you from a member, but the thread is moving in a direction that probably isn't what you intended.

It's exactly what he intended. It started with someone saying that they cracked a program, and he said that they shouldn't encourage illegal activities. In no way are they encouraging others to do so. So yeah, it's going exactly how he wants it.

 

[buildblox]

It's exactly what he intended. It started with someone saying that they cracked a program, and he said that they shouldn't encourage illegal activities. In no way are they encouraging others to do so. So yeah, it's going exactly how he wants it.

You folks are talking about weed and robbing banks; I don't see how that's relevant, even if it's for an analogy

 

[Devon]

You folks are talking about weed and robbing banks; I don't see how that's relevant, even if it's for an analogy

Because it's something illegal. The rule doesn't even say don't encourage illegal activities anyways lmao so it's irrelevant[DOUBLEPOST=1496112872][/DOUBLEPOST]Justis you realize that the rules don't even contain the word "illegal" at all?

 

[Jdsgames]

​

We all are aware that illegal activities are not allowed here, correct? We're all aware that is a violation of our TOS? I certainly hope you're aware of that.
We're also aware that rule 1.1 forbids the encouragement of the violation of our TOS, yes?

Encouragement, by definition means to give support.

A few members and I had a disagreement today, they claimed flaunting your illegal activities was not a violation of rule 1.1 after I verbally warned several people for supporting/encouraging the cracking of paid content and DDoSing, when they stated that they crack paid content and DDoS people 24 hours at a time, respectively.

One member seemed a bit confused, making the comparison, "If I say someone raped a 3 year old girl yesterday, would I be warned for violating rule 1.1"?
Just to clarify, no. Not necessarily. Though it certainly depends on the context.
However, if you were to say "I raped a 3 year old girl yesterday", yes you would be warned, because you are supporting that activity by stating that you engage in the activity.
Engaging in an activity is an implied support for it, and that is how it is enforced.

We do not want our members supporting/encouraging illegal activities on our forums.
Yes, stating you engage in illegal activities is considered a form of encouragement.
I always thought this was obvious, but apparently a few members are not only confused, but in complete disagreement, stating that it shouldn't be considered encouragement/support at all and should be allowed.

I'd like everyone's opinions on this if possible.

I mean 99% of businesses on here are not even registered so any form of "company" advertising would be illegal.

Although, the main point against illegal content in general such as ddosing, doxing, etc. I do support your actions and can clearly see they are promoting illegal content.

 

[MCAdmiration]

So what happened was they got warned for saying they cracked Sony Vegas? Would it be a warning if they also said they downloaded a cracked version? As it is the same outcome or? I don't really see it in this aspect as a form of encouragement, however in the examples given it definitely is.

 

[Devon]

Justis I just looked up the definition of encourage.

to make something more likely to happen or develop

Are you saying that you're more likely to rape a 3 year old if I say I did?

 

[Jdsgames]

Justis I just looked up the definition of encourage.



Are you saying that you're more likely to rape a 3 year old if I say I did?

Not to point anything out, however, If I made 100$ for ddosing you someone could be interested in making that money and therefore, doing the action I did. Which my actions and payment encouraged another user to do something. Making it more likely to become a 'service' offered.

Let history speak for itself...

Slavery: Prime example enough people did it, it was profitable and supported.

 

[Justis]

If I rob a bank to support my heroin addiction, it doesn't mean I support robbing banks. If someone cracks a program (what started this whole argument) it doesn't mean they support it. It's just something they did to save on money. They are in no way saying that others should go out and do the same thing.

Yes, like how people could also say I smoked cigs (or meth) yesterday and they follow it with "Just because I do it, doesn't mean you should". How would that be handled Justis?

That's what you call hypocrisy.
If you said that, you'd be contradicting yourself, because if you engage in an activity, you are supporting it.
You can say you don't support it, you can convince yourself that you don't support it, but it is an absolute fact that by doing something you are supporting the doing of that thing.
The real thing to consider here is it's effect on the people around you; not your internal thought process; because the rules are in place to protect the community, everyone around you.

If someone grows up in a place where everyone is doing illegal activities, they are much more likely to engage in them, even if they're told by those same people "It's wrong, you shouldn't do it."
Engagement is a form of encouragement. That is just how humans naturally work.

You folks are talking about weed and robbing banks; I don't see how that's relevant, even if it's for an analogy

You're right, the analogies are over the top; it'd be MUCH more helpful for everyone reading the thread if we stuck to things that actually occur on the marketplace; however, devon is right in that they are still relevant because it's still covered under the rules.

Because it's something illegal. The rule doesn't even say don't encourage illegal activities anyways lmao so it's irrelevant[DOUBLEPOST=1496112872][/DOUBLEPOST]Justis you realize that the rules don't even contain the word "illegal" at all?

Did you read the original post? Have you read the TOS?
Check the TOS for the forbidding of illegal activity.
Rule 1.1 prohibits the encouragement of the violation of our TOS.

 

[Devon]

That's what you call hypocrisy.
If you said that, you'd be contradicting yourself, because if you engage in an activity, you are supporting it.
You can say you don't support it, you can convince yourself that you don't support it, but it is an absolute fact that by doing something you are supporting the doing of that thing.
The real thing to consider here is it's effect on the people around you; not your internal thought process; because the rules are in place to protect the community, everyone around you.

No you're not wtf I just gave 2 examples of doing something and not supporting it and you don't even care.

Did you read the original post? Have you read the TOS?
Check the TOS for the forbidding of illegal activity.
Rule 1.1 prohibits the encouragement of the violation of our TOS.

So cracking sony vegas is against your TOS? lmao

 

[Justis]

No you're not wtf I just gave 2 examples of doing something and not supporting it and you don't even care.

So cracking sony vegas is against your TOS? lmao

I addressed your 'examples'.

That's what you call hypocrisy.
If you said that, you'd be contradicting yourself, because if you engage in an activity, you are supporting it.
You can say you don't support it, you can convince yourself that you don't support it, but it is an absolute fact that by doing something you are supporting the doing of that thing.
The real thing to consider here is it's effect on the people around you; not your internal thought process; because the rules are in place to protect the community, everyone around you.

If someone grows up in a place where everyone is doing illegal activities, they are much more likely to engage in them, even if they're told by those same people "It's wrong, you shouldn't do it."
Engagement is a form of encouragement. That is just how humans naturally work.

 

[Jdsgames]

So cracking sony vegas is against your TOS? lmao

I mean for 99% of software decompiling it is illegal.
So since the MCM forbids illegal activities here it would be against the TOS...

Furthermore, by using the Service, you agree that: (i) You will not use the Service for any purpose that is illegal or prohibited in these TOS

 

[Devon]

I addressed your 'examples'.

sorta I guess, what about the rest?[DOUBLEPOST=1496113604][/DOUBLEPOST]

I mean for 99% of software decompiling it is illegal.
So since the MCM forbids illegal activities here it would be against the TOS...

Again, the TOS doesn't even have the word illegal in it. If it's that hard to find something in the TOS then it needs to be rewritten.

 

[Jdsgames]

sorta I guess, what about the rest?[DOUBLEPOST=1496113604][/DOUBLEPOST]
Again, the TOS doesn't even have the word illegal in it. If it's that hard to find something in the TOS then it needs to be rewritten.

I just quoted it....

Furthermore, by using the Service, you agree that: (i) You will not use the Service for any purpose that is illegal or prohibited in these TOS

http://www.mc-market.org/policies/terms/

 

[Devon]

I just quoted it....

Yeah didn't see the quote, regardless that quote doesn't cover anything lmao. Cracking sony vegas isn't using this service to crack sony vegas

 

[Jdsgames]

Yeah didn't see the quote, regardless that quote doesn't cover anything lmao. Cracking sony vegas isn't using this service to crack sony vegas

You really should read the whole section
That was only a snippit

 

[Devon]

You really should read the whole section
That was only a snippit

Sorry I wasn't even in the TOS, I was just reading the rules. I read that section, it still doesn't cover that at all. It doesn't say not to do illegal things, and doing illegal things is not against the rules or TOS. It just refers to things involving this service.

 

[Jdsgames]

CONTENT RESTRICTIONS
You may not upload, post, or transmit (collectively, "submit") any text, images, videos, sounds, or other works (collectively, "content") that: (i) Infringes any third party's copyrights or other rights (e.g., trademark, privacy rights, etc.); (ii) Contains sexually explicit content or pornography; (iii) Contains hateful, defamatory, or discriminatory content or incites hatred against any individual or group; (iv) Exploits minors; (v) Depicts unlawful acts or extreme violence; (vi) Depicts animal cruelty or extreme violence towards animals; (vii) Promotes fraudulent or dubious business schemes; or (viii) Violates any law.

You are posting to the shoutbox your illegal actions
Which those acts do violate laws.

 

[Justis]

Sorry I wasn't even in the TOS, I was just reading the rules. I read that section, it still doesn't cover that at all. It doesn't say not to do illegal things, and doing illegal things is not against the rules or TOS. It just refers to things involving this service.

As Jdsgames has quoted from the TOS, we reserve the right to restrict text or other content you submit which depicts unlawful acts.

Encouraging illegal activities is also illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encouraging_or_assisting_a_crime_in_English_law

"Encouraging" is not defined in the statute and can be considered in the same way as the previous crime of incitement. It does not matter if the encouragement or assistance has no effect.[6] In Invicta Plastics Ltd v Clare,[7] a company sold a device to detect radar traps used by the police; using such a device is illegal. The case also confirmed that there is no need for the incitement to be aimed at a specific person - addressing it to the world at large still constitutes incitement.[8] It was advertised illustrating its use in an illegal fashion.[9] However, in R v. James[10] the selling of "black boxes" solely capable of illegally tapping mains electricity sources was not found to incite a crime.[9] In R v. Marlow[11] providing information on the growing of cannabis was found to constitute an offence.[9]"Assisting" is likely to be considered similar to "aiding" in accessorial liability. Assistance can be provided indirectly, for example through a third person.[12]

As notable near the end of that quote, there are differences in opinions even between courts of law, as to what constitutes 'encouragement'.
The best possible thing for you to do, if you are ever wondering whether MC-Market will enforce something a certain way is to ask; because at the end of the day, MC-Market determines what it does and doesn't enforce; similar to how we disallow illegal activities, but support the selling of MC accounts despite it being against Mojang's TOS.

We're a small community, and our rules and TOS are put in place to protect that community and keep it happy and non-toxic, wherever possible.
When looking for answers to what will be allowed here, look to the staff members. That is the most accurate source of information regarding rule enforcement that you can get.