This is total bullshit.

[120275]

I have a thread advertising my Discord Bot Development services in the Development forum (it's sticky) and yesterday, a lot of the users who had vouched for me on my thread DMed me on Discord telling me that their vouches were removed due to 'low quality/meaningless post".

What in the actual fuck? If this is a rule, how come it was enforced only on my thread? If a user had reported my posts deliberately (idek why because I haven't been here long enough to make enemies) what's the point in removing the posts only on my thread? How about the COUNTLESS other threads with vouches on them? What makes a vouch "meaningless" in any way?

Can I go around reporting every single vouch or meaningless post under 1.8? Clearly it seems like I can.

 

[Choo]

I have no idea why staff are so strict
Saying "Vouch" on a thread is very informative:
-Tells people that there is trust built between 2 users
-Encourages someone to deal with the seller
-Shows that the seller has done successful deals before
-Free thread bump
-Shows that the sellers product is less likely to be a scam

When I first joined the site, I took these "Vouch" comments pretty seriously, because they had lots of meaning. Just because a vouch can come in the form of 1-2 words doesn't mean it's not informative.

If someone yelled "FIRE" in a building, would you say "Could you specify, that was pretty low quality of you"? I know Eclipse would!

 

[120275]

it is likely that a staff member saw your thread. this happened to me once. it is dumb. but i gave up on mc-market mainly

I am sure someone took time out of their day to report all the vouches for some reason.[DOUBLEPOST=1569584268][/DOUBLEPOST]

I have no idea why staff are so strict
Saying "Vouch" on a thread is very informative:
-Tells people that there is trust built between 2 users
-Encourages someone to deal with the seller
-Shows that the seller has done successful deals before
-Free thread bump
-Shows that the sellers product is less likely to be a scam

When I first joined the site, I took these "Vouch" comments pretty seriously, because they had lots of meaning. Just because a vouch can come in the form of 1-2 words doesn't mean it's not informative.

If someone yelled "FIRE" in a building, would you say "Could you specify, that was pretty low quality of you"? I know Eclipse would!

This. Entirely this. Most of the vouches on my page were 1-2 sentences, they would show people if I was trustworthy or not.

And before somebody jumps in saying "oh u can just use reputation system to check" - no. Vouches on a thread give meaning to that thread and that particular service done by the user.

 

[Pranium]

Franix did it. I know it's sad. Rock bottom. He reported your thread

 

[Doge]

So basically you received vouches from customers and they were a few sentences, but they got removed for being “meaningless”?

I agree, it’s absolute bullshit that they got removed. Do you know who it was by any chance?

I’ve seen a lot of people talk about how a certain someone doesn’t fully understand the rules and applies them unnecessarily harshly and is just very unpleasant to be around. Perhaps it was them?

 

[120275]

So basically you received vouches from customers and they were a few sentences, but they got removed for being “meaningless”?

I agree, it’s absolute bullshit that they got removed. Do you know who it was by any chance?

I’ve seen a lot of people talk about how a certain someone doesn’t fully understand the rules and applies them unnecessarily harshly and is just very unpleasant to be around. Perhaps it was them?

Not sure who you are talking about, but current evidence points to it being Franix

 

[Doge]

Not sure who you are talking about, but current evidence points to it being Franix

I meant, do you know which staff member removed the posts?

I think most people could guess who, so I was curious if you had an idea.

 

[120275]

I meant, do you know which staff member removed the posts?

I think most people could guess who, so I was curious if you had an idea.

No, sorry. I haven't been here that long but judging by a reply on this thread I have a tentative guess. Not going to post in public for fear of being wrong/public shaming.[DOUBLEPOST=1569590970][/DOUBLEPOST]Update: I've spoken to the user who did it, I am still pissed but I agree with them on the fact that rule 1.8 is utter BS and it really has to go.[DOUBLEPOST=1569591288][/DOUBLEPOST]

So basically you received vouches from customers and they were a few sentences, but they got removed for being “meaningless”?

I agree, it’s absolute bullshit that they got removed. Do you know who it was by any chance?

I’ve seen a lot of people talk about how a certain someone doesn’t fully understand the rules and applies them unnecessarily harshly and is just very unpleasant to be around. Perhaps it was them?

It was Energy, just found out

 

[Doge]

No, sorry. I haven't been here that long but judging by a reply on this thread I have a tentative guess. Not going to post in public for fear of being wrong/public shaming.[DOUBLEPOST=1569590970][/DOUBLEPOST]Update: I've spoken to the user who did it, I am still pissed but I agree with them on the fact that rule 1.8 is utter BS and it really has to go.[DOUBLEPOST=1569591288][/DOUBLEPOST]
It was Energy, just found out

Oh, wasn’t expecting that! You should message him and get him to explain why. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this happening and I’m pretty sure he was promoted not too long ago, most likely made a mistake and the posts can be recovered easily.

 

[User]

idk if we're assuming this is Tofty or Eclipse (guessing based on shoutbox) but both are epic gamers :glasses: don't be a hecker head

 

[DeadDuality]

Eh. I can somewhat understand it. Just a single worded reply could be taken as very low quality. Users could have given a brief statement as to the deal, how you handled things, timeframe, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean they should be required to.

If at the very least 1.8 isn't removed, it needs to be redefined as to what things constitute as low quality and what doesn't. Would be like a 5 minute revision, max, 5 minutes just being to get a good and solid list together.

If they feel that a single worded reply is too low quality, they also have the capability of putting a minimum char limit in place for things. There's not really an excuse for a vague rule being enforced that strictly.

 

[120275]

Eh. I can somewhat understand it. Just a single worded reply could be taken as very low quality. Users could have given a brief statement as to the deal, how you handled things, timeframe, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean they should be required to.

If at the very least 1.8 isn't removed, it needs to be redefined as to what things constitute as low quality and what doesn't. Would be like a 5 minute revision, max, 5 minutes just being to get a good and solid list together.

If they feel that a single worded reply is too low quality, they also have the capability of putting a minimum char limit in place for things. There's not really an excuse for a vague rule being enforced that strictly.

The posts were detailed, they weren't like paragraphs but there was NOTHING like 'vouch'. They were minimum 2-3 sentences.

 

[Tofty]

Whilst this may be of some annoyance to yourself, rule 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

Your customers could react with a “Winner”’ reaction, and/or leave you positive reputation with a description. I’m also of the opinion that the alternative methods stated above are more beneficial to you and your business/product/service as well.

 

[DeadDuality]

Whilst this may be of some annoyance to yourself, rule 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

Your customers could react with a “Winner”’ reaction, and/or leave you positive reputation with a description. I’m also of the opinion that the alternative methods stated above are more beneficial to you and your business/product/service as well.

A reaction is completely irrelevant and would be just idiotic to go off of, since you can see how everyone takes reactions oh so seriously all the time. Yes, reputation is a good alternative, but it should not be the only allowed method. If I go to a product thread, I want to see vouches for that product right away, I don't want to have to dig around to find user feedback. If they are a few sentences long, there is absolutely no reason to remove the posts. That is an extremely poor judgement on the staff member's part.

 

[Tommy W]

Whilst this may be of some annoyance to yourself, rule 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

Your customers could react with a “Winner”’ reaction, and/or leave you positive reputation with a description. I’m also of the opinion that the alternative methods stated above are more beneficial to you and your business/product/service as well.

It is not meaningless though.[DOUBLEPOST=1569599480][/DOUBLEPOST]btw it was Eclipse:
http://prntscr.com/pbtu8j

 

[120275]

Whilst this may be of some annoyance to yourself, rule 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

Your customers could react with a “Winner”’ reaction, and/or leave you positive reputation with a description. I’m also of the opinion that the alternative methods stated above are more beneficial to you and your business/product/service as well.

They are not beneficial. It's supposed to be a vouch on my thread for that particular service. Also, I should know what is beneficial for my service.

A winner reaction could be faked and it is also not the best way to figure out how good my service is.

 

[Doge]

Whilst this may be of some annoyance to yourself, rule 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

Your customers could react with a “Winner”’ reaction, and/or leave you positive reputation with a description. I’m also of the opinion that the alternative methods stated above are more beneficial to you and your business/product/service as well.

But that rule doesn’t justify removing 120275 ‘s vouches at all because they do not fall under those categories. In my 4 years of being registered on this website, this is the first time I’ve seen vouches get removed like that. There have been many thousands of informative vouches/feedback on threads, all with no problem prior to this instance.

The “Winner” reaction was originally set as “Vouch”, but it was reverted back to the default xenforo “Winner” to discourage people using it as vouches. But people do it anyway. And yes, the reputation system is made for leaving vouches/feedback, but it’s also nice for potential customers to see some feedback on the thread, and it is completely okay to do that according to the rules.

I would understand if it just said “Vouch” or something very vague, but if someone was like: “Vouch! <Person> is a great guy and is pleasant to work with! He developed my plugins in a timely manner and was super helpful! Very happy with his service.”, then it makes no sense to remove it. Of course, I don’t know what the messages said exactly, but according to 120275, they were a few sentences. Unless those sentences were literal gibbersih, they didn’t violate any rules.

When I was a staff member, if one of us made a mistake, we’d be real about it and would tell the other person. Everyone makes mistakes and you guys should be talking to each other about them. There’s no need to double down when a mistake is made and there’s no shame in removing a warning and apologizing to the user affected, I’ve made mistakes myself when I handled reports and I’ve always done my best to correct them.

Source: 2+ years of moderation experience on this website

EDIT:

I am making a correction to the previous edit:

Basically, some of the vouches were “Vouch” or similar. Majored informed me of this. I based my post off of @OP’s statement that the posts were 2-3 sentences long. So posts like “Vouch” - I understand removing.

Ones like “Vouch: Easy to work with, strong communicator and one of my go-to developers.” Still aren’t meaningless though. Concise, yes, but also informative.

 

[Tommy W]

But that rule doesn’t justify removing 120275 ‘s vouches at all because they do not fall under those categories. In my 4 years of being registered on this website, this is the first time I’ve seen vouches get removed like that. There have been many thousands of informative vouches/feedback on threads, all with no problem prior to this instance.

The “Winner” reaction was originally set as “Vouch”, but it was reverted back to the default xenforo “Winner” to discourage people using it as vouches. But people do it anyway. And yes, the reputation system is made for leaving vouches/feedback, but it’s also nice for potential customers to see some feedback on the thread, and it is completely okay to do that according to the rules.

I would understand if it just said “Vouch” or something very vague, but if someone was like: “Vouch! <Person> is a great guy and is pleasant to work with! He developed my plugins in a timely manner and was super helpful! Very happy with his service.”, then it makes no sense to remove it. Of course, I don’t know what the messages said exactly, but according to 120275, they were a few sentences. Unless those sentences were literal gibbersih, they didn’t violate any rules.

When I was a staff member, if one of us made a mistake, we’d be real about it and would tell the other person. Everyone makes mistakes and you guys should be talking to each other about them. There’s no need to double down when a mistake is made and there’s no shame in removing a warning and apologizing to the user affected, I’ve made mistakes myself when I handled reports and I’ve always done my best to correct them.

Source: 2+ years of moderation experience on this website

EDIT: Guys I am not making this stuff up -

I decided to investigate for myself and found 120275 ’s thread. The above screenshot is one of the vouches that was removed and re-posted. It’s so similar to my example of a high-quality vouch! I didn’t even see that post when I wrote my example.

I can’t believe it. That post should’ve never been removed.

and i got warning points due to it.