What are your opinions on free healthcare?

[NameAidan]

But what your forgetting is that there's no need for medicines to cost $800 or $2500. The UK provides free healthcare through the NHS, prescriptions cost £8 for all your medicines. Why should you have to pay more in the US than a country like the UK. Healthcare in the US is just a monopoly, people can't live without it, so they pay the premium.

I'd like to quote this article from the ONS (uk's statstics people)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...espendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29




I'm asking you why that spending gap is so evident - when the USA, is arguably a richer country than the UK. Why can't they provide a sort of insurance.

The UK, even covers illness abroad through the GHIC card, meaning if you fall ill abroad you're covered (i think its EU only)

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/he...-a-free-uk-global-health-insurance-card-ghic/

So, please tell me why Americans should pay for insurance just to save a bit on tax.

If you read my entire statement. Americans wouldn't save a bit on taxes... They are saving about 4x the amount that they currently pay (i.e. It is like having $100 in your pocket or $400(per month)). America is rich because Americans spend. America has a large GDP, while the government in America is actually in over 7 trillion dollars in debt. Secondly, you seem to forget that Americans pay for health insurance, meaning pretty much everything is covered besides a mere $20 you might have to pay. The average cost for a family plan of health insurance (4 people) is: $7,983USD (this is the most expensive plan of it). That is less then you in countries with "free health insurance" pay yearly on taxes, you on top of that, according to the BBC, "In pounds per head, that's £2,892 on healthcare for every person in the UK". So on top of your health insurance taxes you also pay an additional 2k pounds. So you keep saying it is free as you drop a ton of money on your taxes. Where as I said in my last statement, your taxes would be about 1/2 of what they are currently. So to bring this to a close. I don't see how how saving 4x my money is worth paying 1/4 of that amount I am saving a year for family health insurance, which allows me to go to essentially any doctor I want for a mere $20 as insurance covers the rest of it.

Insurance also covers the following:
- Ambulance Rides
- 95% of Doctor Appointments
- 95% of the cost of medicine (usually brings the total to about $20)

 

[Gunny]

If you read my entire statement. Americans wouldn't save a bit on taxes... They are saving about 4x the amount that they currently pay (i.e. It is like having $100 in your pocket or $400(per month)). America is rich because Americans spend. America has a large GDP, while the government in America is actually in over 7 trillion dollars in debt. Secondly, you seem to forget that Americans pay for health insurance, meaning pretty much everything is covered besides a mere $20 you might have to pay. The average cost for a family plan of health insurance (4 people) is: $7,983USD (this is the most expensive plan of it). That is less then you in countries with "free health insurance" pay yearly on taxes, you on top of that, according to the BBC, "In pounds per head, that's £2,892 on healthcare for every person in the UK". So on top of your health insurance taxes you also pay an additional 2k pounds. So you keep saying it is free as you drop a ton of money on your taxes. Where as I said in my last statement, your taxes would be about 1/2 of what they are currently. So to bring this to a close. I don't see how how saving 4x my money is worth paying 1/4 of that amount I am saving a year for family health insurance, which allows me to go to essentially any doctor I want for a mere $20 as insurance covers the rest of it.

Insurance also covers the following:
- Ambulance Rides
- 95% of Doctor Appointments
- 95% of the cost of medicine (usually brings the total to about $20)

Problem is then those who cannot afford health insurance. I come from a poverty stricken area, and I have neighbors who would rather suffer through basically any illness or buy backstreet prescriptions because they cannot afford healthcare that covers their necessities.

Even with that being said, American costs for for our medicinal drugs, such as insulin, is fucking ridiculous. The some of the cheapest newer Insulin Isophane (regular insulin) is roughly $0.20 per 100iU/mL (normal dosage) putting the package (since they obviously aren't sold in such units) at around $180. For most, this won't be the end of their world to purchase, but for some, it is deciding on how many days they can eat that week vs getting something they need to survive. And this is for the newer insulin type, not old human insulin, which you can get for a lot cheaper, but doesn't last as long and requires more dosages. Thus, honestly leading to a higher cost per year than just getting the new insulin. And this is for vitals, not even pens. Pens are much more expensive because they are more convenient, safe, and effective than using a syringe and vital. Then the real kicker is the profit margin, it takes $3 (give or take half a buck) to produce this newer insulin. Ridiculous. This practice is allowed and legal here in the US. What the fuck.

 

[Sky.]

If you read my entire statement. Americans wouldn't save a bit on taxes... They are saving about 4x the amount that they currently pay (i.e. It is like having $100 in your pocket or $400(per month)). America is rich because Americans spend. America has a large GDP, while the government in America is actually in over 7 trillion dollars in debt. Secondly, you seem to forget that Americans pay for health insurance, meaning pretty much everything is covered besides a mere $20 you might have to pay. The average cost for a family plan of health insurance (4 people) is: $7,983USD (this is the most expensive plan of it). That is less then you in countries with "free health insurance" pay yearly on taxes, you on top of that, according to the BBC, "In pounds per head, that's £2,892 on healthcare for every person in the UK". So on top of your health insurance taxes you also pay an additional 2k pounds. So you keep saying it is free as you drop a ton of money on your taxes. Where as I said in my last statement, your taxes would be about 1/2 of what they are currently. So to bring this to a close. I don't see how how saving 4x my money is worth paying 1/4 of that amount I am saving a year for family health insurance, which allows me to go to essentially any doctor I want for a mere $20 as insurance covers the rest of it.

Insurance also covers the following:
- Ambulance Rides
- 95% of Doctor Appointments
- 95% of the cost of medicine (usually brings the total to about $20)

But don't you think a health system where everyone can access it is better. Then an overpriced private system where companies set their own prices?

 

[NameAidan]

But don't you think a health system where everyone can access it is better. Then an overpriced private system where companies set their own prices?

There are free, or extremely cheap versions of health insurance. For example, medicare. It is free for most people ($0/month). The only setback is that you have to go to specific doctors in order to be covered, you don't have the ability to go to any doctor you choose.

 

[Sky.]

There are free, or extremely cheap versions of health insurance. For example, medicare. It is free for most people ($0/month). The only setback is that you have to go to specific doctors in order to be covered, you don't have the ability to go to any doctor you choose.

Don't you think healthcare should be free no matter the surgery - or do you think just essential stuff?

 

[Gunny]

There are free, or extremely cheap versions of health insurance. For example, medicare. It is free for most people ($0/month). The only setback is that you have to go to specific doctors in order to be covered, you don't have the ability to go to any doctor you choose.

And what if you do not have the ability to get to that specific doctor? Also, an ambulance won't give you a choice on which hospital to take you to, nor do you really have the a say in the matter if you are bleeding out (for example). Now, you are stuck with an unpayable debt that can further worsen your living situation. While I appreciate and like medicare, I don't think it is the solution we need.

 

[Alistair F.]

It's quite interesting, the United States a country "for the people" are letting their citizens die because of a corrupt health system not allowing them to get the basic necessities they need. Health insurance and basic necessities are much too expensive if we were to adopt a system similar to the UK's we would save so many lives, at the expense of paying more taxes. Life shouldn't be at a price, life is supposed to be cherished, therefore, we should try to preserve as much life as possible with the necessary policies and systems in place to accomplish it.

 

[Patrick_DD]

We did this exact question in Economics. One of the points were that if they were to stop the NHS, taxes probably won't go down; Instead they'd find other places to use the tax.

Lack of free health care could also cause the PPC to shrink, when you think about it, as more people will have to take sick days off work, meaning the Economy wouldn't be working at its full potential.

It's also a bit morally wrong if a country can afford to provide free Health Care but chooses not to, as the poor and vulnerable would lose out.

It would also increase the gap between the rich and the poor, whatever that means :tup:

Anyway as I do English Literature, it's burned into my brain to always acknowledge the other side.

Lack of free health care would attract higher quality professionals due to the larger pay.

There would also be higher quality and more choice in the medical industry due to competition. Usually with competition you can expect high quality good for cheaper prices, but since we're assuming the health care used to be free... ha ha...

Finally, there would be greater appreciation for doctors, nurses etc as people would have to pay for their visits. This would result in less missed appointments, meaning there could possibly be more appointments for people to book.

 

[Sullybash12]

I feel that time is an issue. In Canada you have to wait for supposedly awhile to get surgeries so yeah[DOUBLEPOST=1610736005][/DOUBLEPOST]

We did this exact question in Economics. One of the points were that if they were to stop the NHS, taxes probably won't go down; Instead they'd find other places to use the tax.

Lack of free health care could also cause the PPC to shrink, when you think about it, as more people will have to take sick days off work, meaning the Economy wouldn't be working at its full potential.

It's also a bit morally wrong if a country can afford to provide free Health Care but chooses not to, as the poor and vulnerable would lose out.

It would also increase the gap between the rich and the poor, whatever that means :tup:

Anyway as I do English Literature, it's burned into my brain to always acknowledge the other side.

Lack of free health care would attract higher quality professionals due to the larger pay.

There would also be higher quality and more choice in the medical industry due to competition. Usually with competition you can expect high quality good for cheaper prices, but since we're assuming the health care used to be free... ha ha...

Finally, there would be greater appreciation for doctors, nurses etc as people would have to pay for their visits. This would result in less missed appointments, meaning there could possibly be more appointments for people to book.

I don't necessarily agree with the PPC curve statement. As long as labor stays constant in the long run, it won't really be an issue for someone to take even a week off of work. People cover shifts, etc. And sick days are often because of colds and other things that aren't exactly curable just have treatments to prevent death such as ventilation and fluids. I feel even if someone left their job they would be replaced as long as unemployment is greater than 0%, especially cystically unemployed.

Also, as the government is in quite big debt already, I feel that the US can't necessarily afford healthcare without sacrificing something else like military spending/social security.

There is something to be said about government spending though, as the money multipliers, etc can help the government, but taxes also have a negative multiplier, should they increase.

Although I definitely don't agree with Reagonomics/trickle-down, there is something to be said about rich people with lots of money (speaking from an economics-only standpoint)

 

[Bendik]

In Norway its kinda free, its free if its a serious injury, if not you most pay "egenandel" (deductible) that its about 500-750NOK ,depens of what service you are using.

 

[Sky.]

Also, as the government is in quite big debt already, I feel that the US can't necessarily afford healthcare without sacrificing something else like military spending/social security.

keke, how much does the usa spend on their military by actively getting into wars and conflicts

 

[RiznSun]

keke, how much does the usa spend on their military by actively getting into wars and conflicts

Not to get too off-topic: Despite the endless middle eastern wars and interventionism, our military has undoubtedly provided a large benefit to the world. We help protect a wide range of countries, and arguably without us, there would be a power vacuum, the likes of which a bad actor like China or Russia would fill.

I am still in favor of cutting funding in the 50-150 billion range as long as the cuts are sensible and don't drastically weaken the military. Anyway, to connect this back to healthcare, our provided defense allows your guy's budgets all across Europe, etc to be more flexible in providing social services. I am not so optimistic the U.S. can provide quality and sustainable public healthcare system, seeing how they managed Social Security so poorly. Also our healthcare innovation is exported to your nations abroad, which I am fine with, but we must recognize that a fully public system would drastically reduce innovation.

 

[Sky.]

Also our healthcare innovation is exported to your nations abroad

I disagree - source https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/

 

[Spektra]

Health should be a right. Money is a privilege.

 

[Sky.]

Health should be a right. Money is a privilege.

Well worded.

 

[Spektra]

Well worded.

Thank you kind sir