AI on BuiltByBit

[Artillex-Studios]

Hey everyone!

So, that whole text was for support team, but they recommend us to publish it as suggestion, so we can see everyone's opinion, thoughts on that topic.
For clarify before you read it: What we want is change, not unconditionally enabling AI art, just re-think the rules, restrictions. I think proper consideration is really really important here - and i personally don't stand in side of "accept every AI art with no regulation"
In end of text you can also see few examples for AI in BBB.

The ticket:
Dear BuiltByBit Moderators, Admins,

Firstly, thank you for providing us with the opportunity to be a part of this incredible marketplace platform.
Our team mainly uses this site to sell our products, and following the guidelines is crucial to us. We believe that fairness and continual improvement are paramount.

Recently, we gained experience with a regulation regarding "AI Generated Arts" on that website. Although we unknowingly published AI-generated art in the past, we now conduct thorough checks and request images from layers to ensure compliance.
While I understand the need for this regulation, I believe that it may not be in the best interest of our community. Nowadays, technology is evolving, and in my personal opinion based on online information and personal experience, AI is growing and appearing in all markets. This includes copywriting, art and graphics, coding, programming, and other areas.
We can also observe a few examples on BBB that are favorable from the perspective of both customers and sellers. However, these examples violate the rules and may have slipped through the filter due to lack of reports or moderator detection. Nevertheless, I must point out that from the gathered data and information, customers seem to be satisfied, and some products have gained popularity (including one of our AI products that gained popularity before removal), leading to the possibility that sellers have earned considerable profits.

My team and I believe that our ticket represents not just our own opinion but also that of many users. Discussing AI rules and changes is essential, and we have provided arguments in favor of this topic.

By encouraging creativity through AI, more users can monetize their ideas and creativity, expanding their supply of options and meeting the demand for quality content. With AI, professional artists can provide better resources, faster work, and higher quality. It can also expand the success of the marketplace, and I think it's important to note that this rule separates two types of people:
1) those who use AI as a part of their art, making it unrecognizable and unprovable, and enabling them to work faster and better;
and 2) those who are less able or willing to hide AI, not wanting to break the rules, good with AI, but (maybe) have less basic graphical skills.

With AI, creators can work more efficiently and complete tasks faster, leading to better productivity and improved quality, which benefits both creators and customers.

The enhanced user experience provided by AI helps customers find more interesting products and generates greater interest in the site. With increased access to more good content, customers experience better satisfaction. It can inspire more people to create content, make money, and assist others in finding what they need.

Keeping up with technological advancements is crucial as AI technology continues to evolve.
It's important for users to stay informed about the latest trends in order to maximize their personal and professional development. By using AI to explore and apply new technologies, users can stay ahead of the curve and improve their skills in this ever-changing field. The BBB offers not only a great marketplace and forum, but also a platform for learning and growth.

We understand that it is not a one-sided issue, and we acknowledge that rules are created for specific reasons. Nevertheless, in my opinion, we cannot disregard AI permanently, as it is increasingly becoming a vital component of the contemporary world. Despite its advantages and disadvantages, it is crucial to view the bigger picture. While some people have objections regarding AI, such as ethical concerns and the rights of machines, these are already taken into account and exist as products of rule-making.

Considering the acceptance of AI content – not just art, but other AI-generated contents that are popular on the site and still raise ethical concerns – I believe that accepting AI content will be beneficial for customers, creators, and BBB, making the site more popular, technologically advanced, and in-demand. Additionally, it will also simplify the moderators' job.

We understand that the decision rests with you, and our letter serves only to express our beliefs and promote change.
We appreciate your consideration and are confident that you will make the best decision possible. Should you choose to accept our proposal, we ask that you take into account the necessary restrictions, requirements, and proper research.

However, if the decision is made not to accept AI art, we fully understand. However, we ask that you take greater care with profiles and content, as there are products and users with AI use, and it has become ubiquitous.
It is unfair for different people to be restricted by different rules and it should be uniformly accepted or not accepted for everyone.

As I mentioned before, there are positive examples.
https://builtbybit.com/resources/giveawayz-new-easy-use-giveaway-plugin.27976/ - Cover
https://builtbybit.com/resources/crafting-materials-73-textures.31740/ - Cover Background
Not art but AI: https://builtbybit.com/creators/aida.298512/
and more...
https://builtbybit.com/resources/custom-ai-discord-chatbot-art-gen.31226/
https://builtbybit.com/threads/minegpt-1-7-1-20-use-the-power-of-ai.712976/
And heres alot AI post in BBB, so you can see its not unknown an unused in site: https://builtbybit.com/search/1650006/?q=ai&o=relevance

Thanks for reading the letter, and thank you in advance for your feedback.


Best regards,

Lirias
Founder of Artillex Studios.

 

[Zalbus]

AI art would takeaway the need for artists, effectively rendering them useless. It takes away the authenticity as well. Artillex-Studios, I’m curious to hear what you think of this !

 

[Artillex-Studios]

AI art would takeaway the need for artists, effectively rendering them useless. It takes away the authenticity as well. Artillex-Studios, I’m curious to hear what you think of this !

I think its a really hard topic (but also a interesting one).
From one side, artists can do more effective, quality and fast work with AI, what can lead to really good results. However, from the other side i understand why it is concerning, and maybe it really can takes some form from authenticity - thats a another reason why i think it is important to change rules.

In my opinion the most important thing would be to find a way for AI art and human art to coexist, and balance - and proper, more specific rules.
Currently based on what i can see now i think artists who can use AI takes oppurtunity from artists who can not, and from everyone else.

With totally banning AI art i think we take the chances from people:

• From the customers, the chance of deciding buying AI Art or not, if its 100% banned they can't make the "buy" choice (even if they would like the resource), but it is not perfectly detectable, mistakes can happen, and customers can buy AI art by accident, or creators also, from other creators (happened with us)
• From the artists/sellers, the chance of improving skills/resources with new technology, and chance for not being overachieved by people who uses AI Technology
• From the site, the chance for recognize every AI resource, and treat in right place.

If something is AI, and seller can say it is AI, i think it can get a category, like "Illustred", "rendered" and stuff - and also because it definitely a risk the AI resources can be marked in conspicuous place: It is an AI art/semi AI art (maybe not the good word for it but like a "warning").

And the other really important thing about that is AI can't do perfect art. There always be mistakes, but in really big percentage of cases need human editing/graphical skills is the goal is a high quality resource (for example, AI have really big problem with hands)

I would gladly hear your opinion about that Zalbus !

 

[Ellie]

I think the main problems to note are that:
- There is a vast difference between using it as a tool, and using it to just generate artwork. A research tool, in the same way you research key words on somewhere like ArtStation or Pinterest, is a way that artists do enjoy using AI generators to assist in their art creation. As with any research material, it's not used within the actual piece itself, as in you don't trace it or lazily remove the jpeg background and call it a day, it's part of the moodboard process. Same way you don't trace someone else's artwork on ArtStation, but reference or inspiration is fine. Another use is sticking in your WIP if you're struggling to finalise a piece in your head, so you can have visual assistance on seeing what exactly needs working on.

- AI art is often, if not basically always, scraping art it does not have permission to use. Which is the main problem with it being generated and posted on BBB. It's so poor sometimes that I'll see a generated piece and I can recall where exactly I saw its main 'inspiration' on Pinterest. There's a lack of ethics there that'd probably have to be addressed first and that seems to be a long way off since the standard for generators is just to scrape off of social media.

In all cases where you use it as an assistant, it wouldn't reflect in your uploaded work. Because you wouldn't be taking the stolen-art-generator and then uploading it. You wouldn't be tracing it, modifying it, or in any way uploading it. You wouldn't end up with a wonky and confusing design because the human drawing it will make it logical (rather than the endless amounts of treasure chests with odd panelling, missing locks, mismatching elements and sometimes even melting wood). Most of the generated 'art' on BBB so far has been a prompt stuck in a generator and then used the wand tool to very poorly remove the background, to the point you can still see a pixel outline and all the wonky defects.

I have to disagree on any notion of generated 'art' being posted on BBB, entirely for ethical concerns as well as the fact that most of it if not all has been visually poor, clearly ripped from a specific creation, "In the style of _", or being sold as if it were actually hand-crafted with 0 communication that it's just a generator made from other artists work. But using it as a research tool or assistant is (IMO) pretty ok, as it won't be reflected in your upload, which is the standard with industry work currently.

 

[Artillex-Studios]

I think the main problems to note are that:
- There is a vast difference between using it as a tool, and using it to just generate artwork. A research tool, in the same way you research key words on somewhere like ArtStation or Pinterest, is a way that artists do enjoy using AI generators to assist in their art creation. As with any research material, it's not used within the actual piece itself, as in you don't trace it or lazily remove the jpeg background and call it a day, it's part of the moodboard process. Same way you don't trace someone else's artwork on ArtStation, but reference or inspiration is fine. Another use is sticking in your WIP if you're struggling to finalise a piece in your head, so you can have visual assistance on seeing what exactly needs working on.

- AI art is often, if not basically always, scraping art it does not have permission to use. Which is the main problem with it being generated and posted on BBB. It's so poor sometimes that I'll see a generated piece and I can recall where exactly I saw its main 'inspiration' on Pinterest. There's a lack of ethics there that'd probably have to be addressed first and that seems to be a long way off since the standard for generators is just to scrape off of social media.

In all cases where you use it as an assistant, it wouldn't reflect in your uploaded work. Because you wouldn't be taking the stolen-art-generator and then uploading it. You wouldn't be tracing it, modifying it, or in any way uploading it. You wouldn't end up with a wonky and confusing design because the human drawing it will make it logical (rather than the endless amounts of treasure chests with odd panelling, missing locks, mismatching elements and sometimes even melting wood). Most of the generated 'art' on BBB so far has been a prompt stuck in a generator and then used the wand tool to very poorly remove the background, to the point you can still see a pixel outline and all the wonky defects.

I have to disagree on any notion of generated 'art' being posted on BBB, entirely for ethical concerns as well as the fact that most of it if not all has been visually poor, clearly ripped from a specific creation, "In the style of _", or being sold as if it were actually hand-crafted with 0 communication that it's just a generator made from other artists work. But using it as a research tool or assistant is (IMO) pretty ok, as it won't be reflected in your upload, which is the standard with industry work currently.

Im understand, and not just understand but even agree with bigger part of your concerns.
For clarify: I absolutely do not support, under any circumstances, that AI Generated Arts be fully allowen on the site, without conditions, filtering and requirements. This could have really harmful effects.

However, what i think is very important to be specific in the rules, to define exactly what can and cannot be done.
E.g. 4.4 Forbidden products/services (https://builtbybit.com/wiki/forbidden-products-and-services/)
It simply says in the "Prohibited Products and Services" list:
- AI Generated art
I think this rule does not clarify which tools can be used and to what extent, since they can also be part of the WIP, either as inspiration, or as post-work on AI art, and by that im not nean a background remove/remover tool but modifications on AI art, fixing errors/issues, improving quality, and using it as a strong base.
To be honest i don't even know what is the case if for example someone re-do an AI art with their own ideas, human and logical comments (or for example if someone modify, improve an AI art)
It would be very very important for us to seperate what we allow, and what we dont.
For example, lets assume that we don't still allow AI art:

• It is allowed to use AI art on cover, but not part of product? (you can see examples above)
• It is allowed to modify an AI art, correct errors, perform human post-work and only use it as a strong base?
• It is allowed to use AI art not in the product, but for example as graphics part as description?
• It is allowed to use an AI tool in your own product/art? (for example enlarges)

I think these aspects, and this topic are very important even if we allow it and even if we don't

In the case, even if we are thinking about partial allowing i think it is very important to be careful and take into account the following suggestions:

• Strict guidelines and requirements. For example, require good quality, exclusion of AI errors, exclusion of bad looking ugly AI art
• Separation, making proper, seeable differences. "AI art" could be given a seperate category on the site, and a warning could be placed next to the content indicating that the given contect is "AI art" or "inspired by the work of another artist" - with this, the filtering is also simpler, and human artwork would beand the human artwork would be still distinguishable and appreciated.

 

[Ellie]

• It is allowed to use AI art on cover, but not part of product? (you can see examples above)
• It is allowed to modify an AI art, correct errors, perform human post-work and only use it as a strong base?
• It is allowed to use AI art not in the product, but for example as graphics part as description?
• It is allowed to use an AI tool in your own product/art? (for example enlarges)

I won't reply to your full message as my ethical concerns cover all of it but for this part I just wanted to clarify for you that covers and descriptions are not products, so as long as the art used on a cover/description is not misleading in regards to the product received, I believe it's fine. Of course if you're selling graphics and using AI generated content in the cover but not the product contents, then you would be misleading. The rule specifically lists it under forbidden products and services.

Using it as a strong base is still disallowed. I'm unsure what you mean about as a tool, your canvas should be large enough from the get-go?

 

[Artillex-Studios]

Using it as a strong base is still disallowed.

I know it is, thats why it is a suggestion - i think that was only a small part of everything i texted. I believe it is more complex topic, and my text was about my concerns, suggestions.

I won't reply to your full message as my ethical concerns cover all of it

However, i undestand you and respect your opinion, just please understand that suggestion post is not because i dont understand rules, but because in my personal opinion rules require changes (even if it will be still disallowed) with technology evolves I think the policies/rules should too

I'm unsure what you mean about as a tool, your canvas should be large enough from the get-go?

And it was just only a example of course, i don't know every AI tool and everything what AI capable of, but for example theres a small resolution image, designed long time ago, i think its helpful if AI can enlarge your own art and you don't need to re-do it.