Let's talk about Gun Control!
- Thread starter Croc
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Just dont be mentally inept and radicalized, simple!
Also, I had seen the posts on 4chan as it started. Kinda interesting to even see people on 4c to disown someone who did such terrible acts.
Edit: Posts were originally on 8chan but users of both transferred them between 8chan and /pol
Also, I had seen the posts on 4chan as it started. Kinda interesting to even see people on 4c to disown someone who did such terrible acts.
Edit: Posts were originally on 8chan but users of both transferred them between 8chan and /pol
If it's a good point, it defeats your "solution" to the problem.
You'd put the gun down after killing the threat...
Many of the kids in this community are brighter than you think. Just read some of their responses on this thread.Politics on a Minecraft forum... lovely
Banned forever. Reason: Rules violations
Well said.[DOUBLEPOST=1564967917][/DOUBLEPOST]I completely get where you're coming from Croc, we all want to make the country a safer place. I just don't think the way to do that is to disarm the law abiding citizens.[DOUBLEPOST=1564968091][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd also like to point out how many of the shootings on your list are from Chicago or DC. These cities have the STRICTEST gun control and guess what... lots of shootings.
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That’s my point: doing this is so, so difficult. It’s an entire culture shift. People aren’t going to start seeing it as acceptable and normal overnight. It will literally take a decade or more.
I, uh… I think you might have missed the metaphor.
I absolutely agree with you, but just look at what you’re writing! Look at the size of these flaws. Yes, America puts too much pressure on its youth during their high school and college years. Yes, that leads to depression and mental illness. Now ask yourself: do you see the school system improving in the next 10 or 15 years? If so, do you see it changing drastically enough to offset the consequences you described for the youth? If yes, do you think 10-15 years is soon enough? Odds are there’s a “no” somewhere in there. It’s too large an issue to solve fast enough. It needs attention, for sure though! I’d argue not needs a lot MORE attention a lot sooner. It still kind of terrifies me how accurate MCR’s song “Teenagers” is to this day.
Here I agree wholeheartedly. If there’s a combination of overall societal improvement in regards to the issues you highlighted (mental illness and the causes that lurk behind it) AND somewhat stricter gun monitoring, I think we’d be on our way. We’ve got to do SOMETHING, for God’s sake…
I’ve got to be honest here… the possibility of this holding true beyond just this one city terrifies me. The idea that this won’t help or will only make things worse terrifies me. Because that means I don’t know what to do. Because that means there’s nothing we can do…
And that is a very defeatist mentality. Being an optimist, you can imagine why the possibility of it being the most real and true mentality disturbs me.
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From someone who lived in Texas for 6 years, it was hardly a problem. I can think of one encounter where some crazy guy threatened me. Everyone else I've ever known to own guns has always been responsible with them, although I don't personally like them much.
"In my opinion, all guns, even for recreation should be made illegal and all citizens that own one should be forced to turn them in. The only people that should carry them should be police officers and military." - No, just no. Regardless of whether you're right or not, that's not going to happen, ever, without a major conflict that won't be set to rest for years or even decades. It's clearly against the constitution, and all pro-gun and even some anti-gun advocates won't stand for that.
(p.s Texas is not the open-carry state to point fingers at; it's not even in the top 20 for gun violence, check this out: https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates)
Texas has actually gone down a fair bit in gun violence over the past decade. In 2010, it was 16th highest. In 2013, it was 20th, and in 2016, it was 27th.
Oh, and by the way, I am pro-gun control. I just don't think it's logical or reasonable to believe you can fully eradicate guns/gun violence, or to try to entirely disable tens of thousands of people across the country. With the current ability of the government, gun control will only end up in harm. If they're somehow able to rid the entire country and even outside imports of guns, then yes, please do fully remove them from the country; we don't hunt anymore, and if there's no guns for criminals to shoot us with, then we don't need guns to shoot back.
"In my opinion, all guns, even for recreation should be made illegal and all citizens that own one should be forced to turn them in. The only people that should carry them should be police officers and military." - No, just no. Regardless of whether you're right or not, that's not going to happen, ever, without a major conflict that won't be set to rest for years or even decades. It's clearly against the constitution, and all pro-gun and even some anti-gun advocates won't stand for that.
(p.s Texas is not the open-carry state to point fingers at; it's not even in the top 20 for gun violence, check this out: https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates)
Texas actually has the 27th highest gun violence rate of the U.S states, which puts it in the lower half. It's not a big deal there.
Texas has actually gone down a fair bit in gun violence over the past decade. In 2010, it was 16th highest. In 2013, it was 20th, and in 2016, it was 27th.
Yeah, 4chan has actually a lot of reasonable people but gets a bad rep from the psychos that visit every once in a while. 8chan is where the really screwed up stuff happens.
Oh, and by the way, I am pro-gun control. I just don't think it's logical or reasonable to believe you can fully eradicate guns/gun violence, or to try to entirely disable tens of thousands of people across the country. With the current ability of the government, gun control will only end up in harm. If they're somehow able to rid the entire country and even outside imports of guns, then yes, please do fully remove them from the country; we don't hunt anymore, and if there's no guns for criminals to shoot us with, then we don't need guns to shoot back.
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I think you're saying the only solution is more gun control (correct me if I'm wrong)?
I don't think that's the case. I think we need to focus on allowing good people to own guns and also address mental health.
I don’t think it’s the only solution by any means. I think it’s a great first step in reaching the actual solution, which is in line with what you’ve suggested here.
But if you go up and read some of my longer posts here, I argue that these solutions are MUCH easier said than done. I’m not talking years, I’m talking decades. To me, that’s too long. We’ve got to start somewhere for sure, but I’ve always thought stricter gun control is an excellent way to help mitigate this in the mean time.
When faced with evidence to the contrary, I personally run out of ideas. Are we just going to hope things stay okay while the country moves towards better mental health and other similar solutions?
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT. I wouldn’t just say lazy though. I’d say we’re lazy getting started, AND it will take really long once we start, which only makes people want to not start.
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Well said.
But if you look at data, such as what Landon quoted above, gun control doesn't solve any problems. It only leaves good people unable to defend themselves. Let's face it, those motivated to kill will always find a way to kill. This leads me to the conclusion that we shouldn't be taking away peoples' rights to self-preservation.
Well said. Maybe the answer is to start with broad gun control laws nationwide and finetune it over time to see what works and what doesn't.
Banned forever. Reason: Rules violations
I usually try and avoid controversy, but this one is a bit too close to home.
Literally,
I live about 45 minutes away from the site of the recent shooting in Gilroy. The tragedy itself was absolutely sickening, but what came after I find far more repugnant. Instead of an outpooring of sympathy, it seemed everyone skipped that step, not 45 minutes after the news broke I saw a surge on twitter of people calling for gun control, and people arguing against the callers. 45 minutes.
It is as if everyone had forgotten that this excuse to push a political ideology came at the cost of lives. This desensitization as a result of frequency is absolutely sickening.
The statistics don't lie, change is absolutely necessary to prevent these kinds of incidents. I just worry about how we go about making that change without overstepping boundaries.
I'm gonna play argument cop now:
Next:
Another One:
The Fallacy Fallacy. When it is claimed that an argument contains a fallacy, the proposition it was used to support is wrong.
I'm having fun with this:
That's all the brain power I have for shooting down arguments today.
Please use this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies. It's free.
Also sign up for a debate class if you haven't done an advanced one yet.
Literally,
I live about 45 minutes away from the site of the recent shooting in Gilroy. The tragedy itself was absolutely sickening, but what came after I find far more repugnant. Instead of an outpooring of sympathy, it seemed everyone skipped that step, not 45 minutes after the news broke I saw a surge on twitter of people calling for gun control, and people arguing against the callers. 45 minutes.
It is as if everyone had forgotten that this excuse to push a political ideology came at the cost of lives. This desensitization as a result of frequency is absolutely sickening.
The statistics don't lie, change is absolutely necessary to prevent these kinds of incidents. I just worry about how we go about making that change without overstepping boundaries.
I'm gonna play argument cop now:
Nirvana Fallacy. Gun violence cannot be discredited because there are other means of violence.
Red Herring Fallacy. Wishful Thinking, something that's pleasing to imagine if it was the case is not an argument.
Next:
Banning guns will stop the overwhelming majority of guns from being imported. That's what customs is for. The word I believe you were looking for is smuggling.
By removing guns you create an access problem. I can't shoot anyone if I don't have a gun, if I don't have the money to buy a now illegal gun, and/or if I don't know anyone who will sell me a now illegal gun. By limiting access, you add more barriers to entry.
Another One:
He did it! My favorite fallacy:
The Fallacy Fallacy. When it is claimed that an argument contains a fallacy, the proposition it was used to support is wrong.
I'm having fun with this:
Ad hominem, attacking the arguer instead of the argument.
Appeal to probability: a formal fallacy, a statement that takes something for granted because it might be the case.
That's all the brain power I have for shooting down arguments today.
Please use this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies. It's free.
Also sign up for a debate class if you haven't done an advanced one yet.
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