Make scam reports public

[MTG]

So this is getting out hand, been like this for 6 months, no thing is getting catched up, and since M6 resigned, It's pretty impossible to catch up right now, so I think all scam reports should be public [including new ones made] I know a lot of site that has their scam reports public and there are no problems.

TLDR: Just make current and new scam reports public.

If you disagree state why.

 

[Jerry]

Great idea.

Just like this suggestion. The scam report approval process is taking far too long. Here's something for you; either let scammers run free or potentially give the children who use this site information that could be used to, if given enough time and effort, find users of the site.

A majority of users on this site use fake information for PayPal and other such services so the chances that real information is released is slim to none.

 

[Rouing]

"If you cannot take the risk of being scammed or fail to take the necessary precautions, dont trade." Reword that a little bit and then it will work in this case.

People have the right to know if someone has a scam report open against them. Are you saying that the other forums, I can list several, that are more successful than MCM are doing it wrong? Are you saying I shouldn't know someone just scammed for $200 when I'm about to sell them an item?

Please dont use projection to prove your point. That is not what I am saying at all and you know it. (Unless you can quote me on that)

These "more successful" forums have active precautions against such situations. The current rules regarding scam reports would cause violations of various DPA's and US Acts that protect information. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the entire scam report system, not just making it public.

Just like this suggestion. The scam report approval process is taking far too long. Here's something for you; either let scammers run free or potentially give the children who use this site information that could be used to, if given enough time and effort, find users of the site.

A majority of users on this site use fake information for PayPal and other such services so the chances that real information is released is slim to none.

Great idea. Lets fuck over the actual legit people. Do you have proof regarding the claim about people using fake information? I sure as hell don't. Everyone I have traded with has had their real information on it (Can confirm). I don't know where you are getting this information.

 

[Jerry]

Great idea. Lets fuck over the actual legit people. Do you have proof regarding the claim about people using fake information? I sure as hell don't. Everyone I have traded with has had their real information on it (Can confirm). I don't know where you are getting this information.

yes let's fuck over the actual legit people who get scammed by scammers who have been reported previously. It's just going to go back and forth in the same way here. No new points are going to come out here so I'm going to just stop commenting.

 

[Callam]

Great idea. Lets fuck over the actual legit people. Do you have proof regarding the claim about people using fake information? I sure as hell don't. Everyone I have traded with has had their real information on it (Can confirm). I don't know where you are getting this information.

People basically daily look to purchase and sell Paypal accounts. I think it's save to assume a lot of people on this site don't use legitimate information. I've had payments from people with their last name on Paypal set to "Bank", "MCM", and other stuff which is clearly fake.

I don't think any scam report I've created has ever had personal information in it. Just take it out if you're scared about it. People need to know who has scam reports open against them. Or would you rather they know who had a scam report against them 4 months ago?

 

[Rouing]

This thread has run its course. No new points are being made.

 

[Landon]

So we should NOT let people know who has scammed. We should just let scammers 100% scam again because there's a small chance a 14 year old might send a death threat and have someones address.

When doing business online you shouldn't care less who has your fullname or address (as long as you're legit of course). When you register a business, your data is public and searchable. When you register a domain (WhoIs protection isn't supported on all TLDs), your data is public and searchable. When you send someone a payment on Paypal, your data is public and searchable.

I would rather not be scammed because I didn't know someone was a scammer because all of their scam reports were hidden from me because someone was scared that their full name or address would be public.

I'm surprised no one has just suggested making it a rule that full names and addresses shouldn't be in scam reports. You're all saying the same thing to me. Hide scammers because someones full name and/or address might be shown in a report. Just suggest that we SHOW who the scammers are but make a rule to not have any personal information in scam reports.

Use reputation. Want to inform someone that a user is scamming. Leave a negative rep while the report is under review. Reports aren't for notifying someone scammed, it's to get scammers banned. Want to notify potential buyers, leave a neg rep with a full review of what happened.

When I deal with someone, I don't search their name in Scam Reports, I simply view negative reputation and thoroughly review all negative reviews, and a few positive reviews (See the bad sides, and see if +rep is legit or just a farmer).[DOUBLEPOST=1530476981][/DOUBLEPOST]I'll re-iterate my points.

1. Notify people he/she is a scammer
This suggestion's only positive outcome is to make scam reports public so users can see who scammed without waiting a month for it to be accepted.

Scam Reports are not for letting the world know you were scammed. It's for getting scammers banned, or solving the issue with the seller/buyer. Honestly, I'd rephrase the forum to 'Disputes' because 'Scam Reports' honestly is unfitting.

If you were scammed, make a report so they'll be banned, and then leave a negative review on their profile. That's how people see if the user is a scammer. Pretty much everyone who has one brain cell will review a user's rep before dealing, not everyone will search their name in the Scam Reports forum.

Leave a review that you were scammed, explain in full detail.
Reputation isn't moderated, so that will be public, and more potential buyers will see it rather than a Scam Report.


2. Personal Information
One of the main reasons threads are moderated are for personal information censorship. Some users are fine with their address being known publicly- other's are not. The main points are: "Own a business or a domain, your info is public." Not everyone owns a business, not everyone owns a domain. Not everyone wants their address known to this community- it's pretty toxic. Just because you are fine, does not mean everyone is, nor does it mean everyone should have the ability to have their information publicly leaked on this forum.

I see no way this provides a positive income. Want to notify someone you were scammed without waiting a month? Leave a rep, that's what everyone checks, not Scam Reports.

not rocket science boys

 

[wilkous]

It doesn't sound like a bad idea although I don't see a point in releasing everyone's conversations. Maybe a scammer list?

 

[MTG]

We need this added, leave your input, currently it's 3 agrees : 1 disagree which's a great thing to hear.

 

[Badger]

I'm still waiting for Justis and/or Mick to reply. Their responses are taking longer than the scam reports posted in May... LOL

 

[Jerry]

• False reports can be shown to the public, possibly leading to witch hunts

I'm sure people can tell if a report is false or not

 

[Klanx]

I'd agree with this. Scam reports are getting seriously out of hand and people can literally exit scam/scam people for 2 months straight before actually getting properly accused of it. I mean, if people are traumatized about personal information being leaked. Other administrator/mods can just do a 30-second check on it very quickly if need be before it gets released.

>.<

 

[Jerry]

Inspect element

If the claims are just outrageous is what I mean. Any proof, even inspect elemented proof, is still left in reports when whoever approves them. It's not until it's been proven faulty or fake that it's discounted as actual evidence in a scam. There's no way to determine whether or not proof is inspect elemented or not until the accused party is able to respond which still is unable to happen until their posts are approved which would end with the same exact situation.

 

[Zeimzey]

Justis

 

[roy]

Lol, having a scam report on someone doesn't mean he's guilty and its not like Justis only accepts the guilty reports and pretty sure if there is a scam report it means there is a proof
The only downside is people can make troll threads but hey that happens in the whole forums you just have to report it

You're correct, but Mick and other Staff have previously denied allowing a sort of "warning" message to be present on a member's profile if they have a report opened against them citing that some reports may be false and it would simply harm the member's reputation. Having ALL reports public would cause for the same issue.

---

Your address is public info in the internet, so If I know your name I can pretty much get your address from any site lol.

1.18 Do not share personal information.
1.18.1 Do not share personal information of another member or person on site.
1.18.2 Do not share personal information of a member of our site off site.
Regardless if you can find it from other places; it should not be found on this site.

^ This exactly. If someone posts someone else's private/personal information onto the forum that is a major privacy concern no matter how easy it is to get that information not to mention the fact that a lot of MC-M users are minors and I would be willing to wager some country somewhere on this Earth would deem it inappropriate for someone to be leaking the personal information of a minor.
Regardless, in the United States there are Invasion of Privacy Laws which makes it a violation of personal privacy to publicly disclose the personal or private information of another person within a reasonable expectation of privacy - thus meaning if you leave a letter with personal info on a public bench and someone else reads it you can't sue them, but if you, per say, privately disclose information to another person for business reasons only and they then make a scam report against you and reveal all that information you confided to them for business reasons, then you now have the right to sue them for invasion of privacy and it is a reasonable expectation for someone not to disclose personal information you gave to them for the sole purpose of business.

EDIT: It is worthy to note that the vast majority of business cases with personal information disclosure involves an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) but as I stated some members here are minors and thus may not have taken this step.


---
For the above reason, I do not think all Scam Reports should be immediately public, they should at least be reviewed by a Moderator to ensure they fit within MC-M guidelines.
That being said, allowing non-Scam Resolvers (normal Moderators) to approve a Scam Report to be public should be implemented because we do still need some line of protection against these things, especially considering these Mods would edit out personal information posted elsewhere anyways.

 

[Orochimaru]

Maybe a box the OP can click to make it public? I disagree and agree with this suggestion.

 

[Landon]

I'd agree with this. Scam reports are getting seriously out of hand and people can literally exit scam/scam people for 2 months straight before actually getting properly accused of it. I mean, if people are traumatized about personal information being leaked. Other administrator/mods can just do a 30-second check on it very quickly if need be before it gets released.

>.<

Want to accuse someone? Leave a negative rep.
When you are fixing to deal with a user, do you check their rep or search their name in the Scam Reports forum first? Scam Reports are not for accusing users. Scam Reports are for reporting errors with a transaction, and then solving that issue via a refund or a punishment. You can accuse via reputation.

 

[Justis]

The main issue for me is that if we unmoderate all the threads, we would need to unmoderate all replies in the section as well.
Otherwise it'll be a biased system where countless accusations with a one sided story and one side's evidence is presented, while the accused is unable to post their defense. Which is a horrible situation to be in.
Imagine having multiple threads accusing you of scamming, and the evidence looking so damning without your defense that you're being swarmed with threats and accusations by mobs and witch-hunters for the entire duration that they are up; unable to take it down.
It is naive to take lightly a situation where accusations are unlimited but defenses are invisible.

That's my main reason to keep threads private until a scam resolver is able to accept the thread and give both parties their time.

There is currently no software available that would be able to filter posting within scam reports in the necessary manner to where we would even consider lifting the manual moderation of replies as well.
Especially with the backlog as it is, it may take a while for a scam resolver to get to the scam report, and by that time, the entire community will have spammed their "righteous" opinion, popular members will get swarmed with supporters, unpopular members will be bombarded with hate.
It won't be fair. It won't be impartial. It'll disorganize the entire process. It will be out of control. And as bad as the scam report situation is, I'd rather simply approve as many a day as I possibly can than allow the system to fall apart completely by lifting moderation on all scam reports and scam report replies.
Because one thing is certain, and that's that I would not be able to keep up with every single scam report being active at the same time.

As others have suggested; in this situation, the best action is to leave negative reputation linking the scam report; and pay attention to the negative reputation that others have before dealing.