http://www.mc-market.org/threads/154001/
Since there is no option to reply there, discuss here.
KEEP IT CIVIL!
Since there is no option to reply there, discuss here.
KEEP IT CIVIL!
MC-market changes - Discuss
- Thread starter Ivain
- Start date
- Status
PebbleHost
High performance, consistent uptime and fast support. Minecraft hosting that just works.
I was truly hoping the announcement Mick promised would allow the community some sort of insight into the situation that MCM has been placed; seeing how it was acknowledged that the lack of communication thus far has been one of the most major mistakes made by administration.
However, the facts might not play to the advantage of those forced to disclose them, so silence and mystery is once again the default card that is played, even whilst apologizing for the mistake of being silent and mysterious.
So here's the facts without situational bias and any attempt to gain ownership favor of the community by withholding or selectively sharing information.
April 1st 2k16 Bebosny signed an agreement to "rent" MC-Market from Mick, for 50% of MCM's income after PayPal and hosting expenses.
All other expenses were Bebosny's to pay with his 50%, and all administrative work on the forums were the responsibility of Bebosny alone.
If Bebosny's forum expenses and work on the forums improved the site's revenue, Mick's 50% rent was increased by 34% of those improvements.
Mick would not be responsible for compensating for any of the expenses Bebosny spent on improving the forum with his split, nor would he be responsible for any of it's administration/moderation/maintenance.
After months of this agreement, Bebosny's actions in improving the site left him with limited cash left over, and after having constantly been turned down in his offers to purchase the rest of the site allowing him to work with a complete budget, or support from Mick himself, staff were no longer able to be paid, and Bebosny was no longer interested in continuing this split income rental agreement.
He insisted the site either be sold to him in it's entirety, or he resign, with the former being preferable. Willing to offer around 10x what the forum was generating before the split and before expenses, and when that didn't work, flex his ability to withhold the site from Mick, in order to prevent it from falling into inadequate and incompetent hands.
After months of frustration and attempts at communication, it was decided, or more "demanded" really, that Bebosny hand over 100% of the site's assets (as well as improvements) to Mick, and only then could Mick "decide".
However, due to several suspiciously convenient circumstances some of the staff team guessed that the decision was already made in Mick's mind, and when Mick had himself reinstated as owner, and made the announcement that the site would be down without Bebosny's authority, it was pretty obvious.
I suspect that had the community known how much of their money was going to someone doing nothing for the forums, resulting in an underfunded budget and service coming back, they'd be more frustrated than the entire staff team was.
In fact, the entire active staff team all expressed to Mick our desires for Bebosny to remain administrator, pleading that he move on, and not put the community through this, but were met only with promises to "clear things up" after the fact. Too late now.
Maybe in the future, transparency will be considered a priority, so decisions can be made with the wisdom of all perspectives, and we can overcome manipulation during and after.
Anyways, despite hating the situation with all of my being, I'm not planning on caving. I look forward to enjoying a long-lasting MC-Market relationship with every member of this community.
We all just have to take what we're given and make the best out of it that we can.
That applies to everything in life, that's what I'm aiming for, and that's what I suggest for everyone feeling conflicted.
EDIT: Here are the exact numbers regarding the monthly income of this site, for those of you wanting facts, not rumors.
However, the facts might not play to the advantage of those forced to disclose them, so silence and mystery is once again the default card that is played, even whilst apologizing for the mistake of being silent and mysterious.
So here's the facts without situational bias and any attempt to gain ownership favor of the community by withholding or selectively sharing information.
April 1st 2k16 Bebosny signed an agreement to "rent" MC-Market from Mick, for 50% of MCM's income after PayPal and hosting expenses.
All other expenses were Bebosny's to pay with his 50%, and all administrative work on the forums were the responsibility of Bebosny alone.
If Bebosny's forum expenses and work on the forums improved the site's revenue, Mick's 50% rent was increased by 34% of those improvements.
Mick would not be responsible for compensating for any of the expenses Bebosny spent on improving the forum with his split, nor would he be responsible for any of it's administration/moderation/maintenance.
After months of this agreement, Bebosny's actions in improving the site left him with limited cash left over, and after having constantly been turned down in his offers to purchase the rest of the site allowing him to work with a complete budget, or support from Mick himself, staff were no longer able to be paid, and Bebosny was no longer interested in continuing this split income rental agreement.
He insisted the site either be sold to him in it's entirety, or he resign, with the former being preferable. Willing to offer around 10x what the forum was generating before the split and before expenses, and when that didn't work, flex his ability to withhold the site from Mick, in order to prevent it from falling into inadequate and incompetent hands.
After months of frustration and attempts at communication, it was decided, or more "demanded" really, that Bebosny hand over 100% of the site's assets (as well as improvements) to Mick, and only then could Mick "decide".
However, due to several suspiciously convenient circumstances some of the staff team guessed that the decision was already made in Mick's mind, and when Mick had himself reinstated as owner, and made the announcement that the site would be down without Bebosny's authority, it was pretty obvious.
~
Much of the details about this transaction were not publicized by Mick or Bebos in order to save the community unnecessary confusion or concern during the entirety of this process.I suspect that had the community known how much of their money was going to someone doing nothing for the forums, resulting in an underfunded budget and service coming back, they'd be more frustrated than the entire staff team was.
In fact, the entire active staff team all expressed to Mick our desires for Bebosny to remain administrator, pleading that he move on, and not put the community through this, but were met only with promises to "clear things up" after the fact. Too late now.
Maybe in the future, transparency will be considered a priority, so decisions can be made with the wisdom of all perspectives, and we can overcome manipulation during and after.
Anyways, despite hating the situation with all of my being, I'm not planning on caving. I look forward to enjoying a long-lasting MC-Market relationship with every member of this community.
We all just have to take what we're given and make the best out of it that we can.
That applies to everything in life, that's what I'm aiming for, and that's what I suggest for everyone feeling conflicted.
EDIT: Here are the exact numbers regarding the monthly income of this site, for those of you wanting facts, not rumors.
Last edited:
I indeed feel like locking that thread is unnecessary. I only locked announcements that I felt like had no need for discussion. I feel like this has nothing but need for discussion. Questions along with rumors will rise due to the lack of information. He mentioned how he apologizes for the lack of transparency but that thread barely had any information and is anything but transparent.
I wasn't planning to post anything on or off-site regarding this, but I will now seeing he barely informed anyone. This entire situation is taken lightly by him and he is definitely not telling a lot of stuff.
I call GG MCM.
Update on Justis his post:
Just to avoid confusion and lack of details, I'd like to add some information:
There was a single cost covered which was hosting. That was $150/month. Besides that, everything was paid out of my own share. This includes but is not limited to Cloudflare ($200/month), addons, monthly development costs, staff (only first few months), etc.
It's also worth mentioning that this entire deal was my idea. It was my idea to lie to the community about the ownership of the site. The only reason behind this is because I wanted involvement and improvement of MC-Market.
There's some more stuff that needs to be mentioned but I'll write something up today or tomorrow morning to prevent further confusion.
I wasn't planning to post anything on or off-site regarding this, but I will now seeing he barely informed anyone. This entire situation is taken lightly by him and he is definitely not telling a lot of stuff.
I call GG MCM.
Update on Justis his post:
Just to avoid confusion and lack of details, I'd like to add some information:
There was a single cost covered which was hosting. That was $150/month. Besides that, everything was paid out of my own share. This includes but is not limited to Cloudflare ($200/month), addons, monthly development costs, staff (only first few months), etc.
It's also worth mentioning that this entire deal was my idea. It was my idea to lie to the community about the ownership of the site. The only reason behind this is because I wanted involvement and improvement of MC-Market.
There's some more stuff that needs to be mentioned but I'll write something up today or tomorrow morning to prevent further confusion.
Last edited:
Rip
"I won’t elaborate any further than what is said here. However, as you know, the site operation was taken over in April. A business deal was made and agreed upon. The exact details not required, but needless to say, it was a mutually beneficial deal. In recent times the agreed terms were no longer being adhered too. Some conversations and negotiations took place. Nothing was decided upon or settled in that time. Unfortunately, in that time we were led to believe that the future and or the existence of the site maybe in jeopardy. Based on this, a quick decision needed to be made and acted upon."
Full paragraph of text there, and it says next to nothing. A deal? Wasn't working? Then the forum gets moved. Nothing as to why or anything.
"The job was left to a group of people that we could trust to get to what needed to be done, in such a short space of time with basically no information. It was made apparent at the time, while they know a lot about infrastructure, forums aren’t their focus. Well aware of the possibilities and pressure, still undertook the job for us."
Forums been the focus or not, a company that does system administration should know how to move some files and configure a web server.
"I can assure you though moving forward, that my plans for MC market are great ones. This speed hump I hope we can get over, and continue to build a strong, positive, vibrant and prosperous community."
Given the events of the last 24 hours, I am somewhat sceptical about that.
"My decisions over this last weeks are ones that are fuelled by my drive to see this succeed as a community, to continue to grow and to support all the liked minded people in it."
Wait hold up, "last weeks" are you meaning to tell us this has been going on for weeks and only now you make a thread explain what is going on?
I don't know you, I'm very active here, but I'm still new in a way. BeBosny has been the only owner I've known. I've heard people speak highly of you in the past, and going on that I'm sure you have the right intent, but the whole situation was handled very badly and that's quite concerning, and somewhat worrying about what's to come.[DOUBLEPOST=1480781433][/DOUBLEPOST]Mick
Full paragraph of text there, and it says next to nothing. A deal? Wasn't working? Then the forum gets moved. Nothing as to why or anything.
"The job was left to a group of people that we could trust to get to what needed to be done, in such a short space of time with basically no information. It was made apparent at the time, while they know a lot about infrastructure, forums aren’t their focus. Well aware of the possibilities and pressure, still undertook the job for us."
Forums been the focus or not, a company that does system administration should know how to move some files and configure a web server.
"I can assure you though moving forward, that my plans for MC market are great ones. This speed hump I hope we can get over, and continue to build a strong, positive, vibrant and prosperous community."
Given the events of the last 24 hours, I am somewhat sceptical about that.
"My decisions over this last weeks are ones that are fuelled by my drive to see this succeed as a community, to continue to grow and to support all the liked minded people in it."
Wait hold up, "last weeks" are you meaning to tell us this has been going on for weeks and only now you make a thread explain what is going on?
I don't know you, I'm very active here, but I'm still new in a way. BeBosny has been the only owner I've known. I've heard people speak highly of you in the past, and going on that I'm sure you have the right intent, but the whole situation was handled very badly and that's quite concerning, and somewhat worrying about what's to come.[DOUBLEPOST=1480781433][/DOUBLEPOST]Mick
Last edited:
'April 1st 2k16 Bebosny signed an agreement to "rent" MC-Market from Mick, for 50% of MCM's income after PayPal and hosting expenses.
All other expenses were Bebosny's to pay with his 50%, and all administrative work on the forums were the responsibility of Bebosny alone.'
Doge had admin perms (idk if i'm supposed to say this)
All other expenses were Bebosny's to pay with his 50%, and all administrative work on the forums were the responsibility of Bebosny alone.'
Doge had admin perms (idk if i'm supposed to say this
)
I've always believed transparency to be a crucial part of a community. I've expressed this several times in discussions months ago regarding this. Adding the "banned user" list really helped with that, but it wasn't enough.
I really hate this decision.
At the end of the day, the question to answer is "How can we make MCM a better place" and the answer is "under the management BeBosny". As simple as that.
I really hate to use this term, but Mick your decision was selfish. You decided against what the staff team had said, and what the community have said over the past few months regarding the ownership of MCM... all for what? I trust (and seriously hope) that you didn't choose to do this solely for the money, or else you probably would've agreed to sell MCM. So please explain why.
Mick you're a good and on top of that a smart guy, so I really don't understand why you chose to do what you did. I've known you for while, but I've also been a member of this community for a long time as well.
In your announcement thread you wrote up several paragraphs, but they were really the equivalent of explaining nothing. You can't just spit out meaningless stuff like and expect us to think it's all OK. Start telling the truth and details, no matter how ugly they may be. We respond better to the truth rather than nothing at all.
I still have a lot of respect for you, but I gotta admit it's decreasing by the second.
If you love this community as much as I and many other members do, please, sell it someone who can take care of it properly.
GL.
you can tell im pretty ticked off, but then again it's 11:47 AM and I haven't slept yet.
I really hate this decision.
At the end of the day, the question to answer is "How can we make MCM a better place" and the answer is "under the management BeBosny". As simple as that.
I really hate to use this term, but Mick your decision was selfish. You decided against what the staff team had said, and what the community have said over the past few months regarding the ownership of MCM... all for what? I trust (and seriously hope) that you didn't choose to do this solely for the money, or else you probably would've agreed to sell MCM. So please explain why.
Mick you're a good and on top of that a smart guy, so I really don't understand why you chose to do what you did. I've known you for while, but I've also been a member of this community for a long time as well.
In your announcement thread you wrote up several paragraphs, but they were really the equivalent of explaining nothing. You can't just spit out meaningless stuff like and expect us to think it's all OK. Start telling the truth and details, no matter how ugly they may be. We respond better to the truth rather than nothing at all.
I still have a lot of respect for you, but I gotta admit it's decreasing by the second.
If you love this community as much as I and many other members do, please, sell it someone who can take care of it properly.
GL.
you can tell im pretty ticked off, but then again it's 11:47 AM and I haven't slept yet.
Last edited:
I'm not happy to see this...not happy at all! I guess in the future we can expect more poor updates and very limited information about them or will Mick explain at least what updates are being done to mcm right now and what is the true situation? (there are nothing about that in his announcement) I'm sure we all want to know!
Huh transparency. Heard that one before.
Thread for reference: http://www.mc-market.org/threads/61186/
Seems to be a pattern. Don't you think?
But let him be. He'll soon get there.
Last edited:
Many people want BeBosny to make a competitor, and say they will follow him there.
I agree that if he made one I would go there, but he has refused to make one.
I don't advocate making one either.
I don't believe there are any competitors like MC-Market. And I agree to this, drama is shit it is just gonna cause bad things.
I wasn't here back in April (I was registered, but never here), so I do not know what happened back then.
Thing is, I am not sure I want to support an owner, which didn't think of the community and did something so selfish. He was choosing money over the community, and this is the byproduct. I do get that milking this would be manys way of thinking, but it is just the wrong thing to do.
If it went to a point where BeBosny couldn't get a fair cut, whilst getting new features for the community and paying staff, and Mick unwilling to help or sell, it isn't a great thing to do for a community. And then with the added bonus of keeping silent, it just doesn't paint a good picture. So I am seriously debating whether or not to do as Justis said, and appriciate what we get.
I want BeBosny as a manager, he cares for the community - and is way better at doing it.
RIP. Bebos 2k16
(Disclaimer: We can discuss competitors, just not advertise)
Last edited:
For those not aware, while Mick was admin he unbanned his friend Linux who was banned for scamming. As MetalMonkey stated, he also allegedly allowed a known scammer, Skill, to operate on the website in exchange for money. Mick randomly kicked K3Feedz off of the admin team for basically no real reason even though he was a very successful and well-liked administrator. This led to a large number of people going to another site and leaving this site for good because they were permanently banned. There was also a great deal of other drama, such as him helping a known negative-element get a moderator position just because that person helped them get the name they wanted in Minecraft. As I also recall, Mick is the one responsible for stopping OG sales which damaged this website's economy greatly. In a few short months Mick demonstrated that he was completely and utterly unable to successfully manage this site.
Ajdin, on the other hand, has demonstrated that he is a very, very capable administrator. Almost no drama has occurred under his watch. The site has run as smooth as butter, and many improvements have been made.
A month from now, OG sales might be banned again, scammers might be able to pay to get their way back on the site, and the site might be going offline every other day.
I think we can all agree that this is a very deep injustice that none of us should approve of. I, for one, do not want all of my business on the site to die as a result of one spoiled kid's random power trip.
Pictures of Mick dealing with ex-moderator Ew, who Mick supported to become a moderator in exchange for him cracking an OG account for him:
https://a.pomf.cat/tcieen.png
https://a.pomf.cat/mtknst.png
https://a.pomf.cat/aonypo.png
https://a.pomf.cat/zduboa.png
https://a.pomf.cat/unmvep.png
https://a.pomf.cat/xwyaef.png
Ajdin, on the other hand, has demonstrated that he is a very, very capable administrator. Almost no drama has occurred under his watch. The site has run as smooth as butter, and many improvements have been made.
A month from now, OG sales might be banned again, scammers might be able to pay to get their way back on the site, and the site might be going offline every other day.
I think we can all agree that this is a very deep injustice that none of us should approve of. I, for one, do not want all of my business on the site to die as a result of one spoiled kid's random power trip.
Pictures of Mick dealing with ex-moderator Ew, who Mick supported to become a moderator in exchange for him cracking an OG account for him:
https://a.pomf.cat/tcieen.png
https://a.pomf.cat/mtknst.png
https://a.pomf.cat/aonypo.png
https://a.pomf.cat/zduboa.png
https://a.pomf.cat/unmvep.png
https://a.pomf.cat/xwyaef.png
Last edited:
- Status
