Modify/Delete rule 1.8

[Tommy W]

So, we've all been there.
Getting warned for leaving a vouch on a thread.

It is NOT a useless thing, if anything it is useful.

It lets people know:
They had a deal together.
Their service is good.

It also encourages someone to deal with the seller.

The thread OP doesn't mind it, in fact they like it as it is a positive comment on their thread.

I think people saying something like "Vouch" should be allowed, as long as they specify why they are vouching.

Something like this should be allowed:
Vouch, bought {item} from them.
It is not "stating the obvious", it could be something like a discord bot thread and you could say:
"Vouch, bought a ticketing system bot from them."

I don't see why it should not be allowed, not even a generic vouch response, as it just helps the thread OP and it is their thread and they don't take it as trashing or anything.

How is it unnecessary bumping only when it is short, even if it is a long vouch, it can still be considered unnecessary.

People don't want to check everyone's rep all the time, and even a simple comment on the thread saying: "vouch", shows that they had a successful deal and all went well.

Soon enough, on the feedback section, someone will say: "Looks nice", and receive warning points...

 

[DeadDuality]

If the vouch reply is more than just a few words, absolutely. They should give specifics in regards to the deal, how the deal was handled, etc. A "meaningless" post could be just a single word post, but if it the reply has a fair amount of feedback it's moronic to remove.

Wholeheartedly agree with this suggestion.

 

[Norska]

I agree, if it's just "Vouch!" or anything that can be considered micro posting, it should be punished. Vouches, same as reputation should be detailed and provide proof to be valid in my opinion.

 

[ShowUp]

Vouch Cool person that really appreciates my vouches. I must make this very long and very not meaningless to show my non meaninglessness because if I get warning points then it means I have no meaning and I am sad. Good vouch and very informative

 

[Tofty]

Something like this should be allowed:
Vouch, bought {item} from them.

Why is this any different from a generic "Vouch" message. Stating you bought an item, which should be rather obvious considering you're vouching for them, doesn't make the message any more informative nor helpful to other members of the community? Most users only offer 1 general service on their thread, whether that be Graphic Design, Writing, Hosting, etc - stating what you've bought doesn't make your vouch any more valuable in most cases.

I agree in principle that users should be allowed to comment on user's threads with the experience of the service - but rule 1.8 doesn't block this. Rule 1.8 covers messages that are short, unhelpful or blatantly obvious. This is to stop a number of things, including post-farming, unnecessary post bumping, etc - thing's we all don't want to see on MC-Market.

After all, 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

If a user wants to comment on their experience in using the service - that's a good thing! I'm sure we all agree that when doing so, users should include as much information as possible to ensure the next customer is informed. Ask your customers to leave a detailed review of their experience.

 

[Tommy W]

Why is this any different from a generic "Vouch" message. Stating you bought an item, which should be rather obvious considering you're vouching for them, doesn't make the message any more informative nor helpful to other members of the community? Most users only offer 1 general service on their thread, whether that be Graphic Design, Writing, Hosting, etc - stating what you've bought doesn't make your vouch any more valuable in most cases.

I agree in principle that users should be allowed to comment on user's threads with the experience of the service - but rule 1.8 doesn't block this. Rule 1.8 covers messages that are short, unhelpful or blatantly obvious. This is to stop a number of things, including post-farming, unnecessary post bumping, etc - thing's we all don't want to see on MC-Market.

After all, 1.8 states the following:

 1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)

If a user wants to comment on their experience in using the service - that's a good thing! I'm sure we all agree that when doing so, users should include as much information as possible to ensure the next customer is informed. Ask your customers to leave a detailed review of their experience.

Could be something like a discord bot thread.
Example: Vouch, bought an automated ticketing system from them!

 

[Pranium]

Tofty, go away. This needs to change!!

 

[Terminated]

hippity hoppity get rule 1.8 out of this property!!

 

[Tommy W]

hey hey ho ho rule 1.8 needs to go!

i inspired this btw

I inspired u by showing u that my comment got hippety hoppitied of mcm's property

 

[Stormbits]

These dumb rules seem to only be enforced with the coming of the new staff members, not calling out names. (Eclipse, Energy, Tofty). Either these staff members are literally hopeless and have no life other than checking someone's thread for these so called low quality posts or they are just completely hopeless. Either way, it's pathetic.

 

[Terminated]

I inspired u by showing u that my comment got hippety hoppitied of mcm's property

Mate I hippity hoppitied your hippity hoppity[DOUBLEPOST=1569620955][/DOUBLEPOST]

I disagree. There's a reputation system for a reason lol.

MCM tryhards are big sad from this

Reputation exists to show other users views of the user as a whole, not for vouching specific services. A user may be a great bot developer like 120275 but a really shit writer or something yet giving them a pos rep affects their dealings on site positively EVERYWHERE. Hence why you would vouch their bot developer thread and maybe leave some constructive criticism on their writing thread.

 

[Terminated]

Yo retard. When you leave a reputation on their profile, you have to put what services you received.

"Yo retard". You think the average person reads every single review on a persons reputation, filtering them all out to see how many reps per service. Just having the "Reputation: xx" positively affects them in something they may be awful at and you wouldn't recommend them for.

 

[Terminated]

You are assuming the average person on this site is retarded (which is true for the most part). Mr. Manager and Aspiring Software Engineer

I'm not saying that you're wrong but I wouldn't say that you are automatically retarded if you aren't prepared to look through possibly dozens of reputation in order to find some relevant ones. It makes it easier for everyone if all the information about a user and how they deal is available on their thread. That is of course the place that information about the service is meant to be.

 

[Kram]

Similar to reputation, there is no reason to reply to a thread with just "vouch" or "vouch I bought this"
It gives no idea to future buyers what was good about the deal, did something stand out, etc.
It doesn't even need to be as detailed as reputation is in my opinion.
As a potential buyer, there are a variety of things I would love to know such as the personality of the person I would be dealing with, whether they were helpful, were they responsive, etc.
Not all vouches get removed, something like
"User was very quick with the work. He completed my request in a very timely manner and updated me frequently!"
is an example of what I would consider actually helpful to a buyer and gives a good idea of what the type of service they will be receiving if they go with this person and adds to the thread.
1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)
1.8.1 Do not post content to which a reaction could have been substitute, or which was already made apparent.
1.8.2 Do not post content whose only purpose is to bump a thread.
1.8.3 Do not vouch on a product/service thread unless you have purchased that product/service. User vouches should be done via the reputation system.
Nothing in rule 1.8 says you cannot leave vouches in general. It states that low-quality vouches cannot be posted and that user vouches cannot be posted.

Vouch Cool person that really appreciates my vouches. I must make this very long and very not meaningless to show my non meaninglessness because if I get warning points then it means I have no meaning and I am sad. Good vouch and very informative

I get that this is a joke but I think it needs to be clear that the vouch doesn't necessarily need to be long, it just needs to be informative by giving insight into how the deal went.

Could be something like a discord bot thread.
Example: Vouch, bought an automated ticketing system from them!

Adding on to that to say if the user was kind, helpful, professional, active, quick, would be a simple way to actually provide something useful to people. The seller can easily say what they are capable of doing, but what is helpful to buyers is other buyers saying if the experience of buying something from the seller was any good.

.
If this is the case? Why are only some people affected by it? If this is your theory of using "Vouch" then just ban the word as a whole! I'm tired of the staff team hiding behind the rules that are so unclear.

Everyone is affected by the rule, nobody is immune to rule 1.8. However, there are many posts and we don't look at every thread and post on the forum, we deal with the posts that get reported to us. If you see a low-quality post, then report it and it will be handled. I don't think banning a word does any good, you can say vouch, just not by itself, there needs to be something informative to go along with saying vouch.

 

[Tommy W]

Ayy, 27 yes votes lol.

 

[Ally]

People don't understand the importance of enforcing 1.8 across the forum. It is the biggest reason I report posts, because so many ban evaders and people post low quality posts which are virtually equivalent to spam. With that being said - it isn't consistently enforced on vouch posts and in an ideal world it should be (we are not in an ideal world however). However, when people report posts it's far easier to notice the supposed inconsistency and presumably why people are angry now in particular.

The rule specifically references low quality vouch posts as examples - which therefore means those examples and similar cases should be enforced, which they are not because they are not reported often. "Vouch, bought this" tells me nothing about a product and it's as low quality as any other post. I'm guilty of this on occasion too, but the posts like those shouldn't be allowed. That being said, not all vouch posts are low quality as some people have already stipulated here, but there still needs to have a line drawn between low quality and regular vouches as any other post.

There have been some really degrading posts I've not been impressed with here. For example in general discussion, there have been some extreme posts blowing this out of proportion. Read the rules and their examples and stop targetting the staff who are enforcing them. (Tofty who has stuck by his decisions has really impressed me here. Gj.)

Basically make your posts high quality and you will be fine.

 

[Aekalix]

Similar to reputation, there is no reason to reply to a thread with just "vouch" or "vouch I bought this"
It gives no idea to future buyers what was good about the deal, did something stand out, etc.
It doesn't even need to be as detailed as reputation is in my opinion.
As a potential buyer, there are a variety of things I would love to know such as the personality of the person I would be dealing with, whether they were helpful, were they responsive, etc.
Not all vouches get removed, something like
"User was very quick with the work. He completed my request in a very timely manner and updated me frequently!"
is an example of what I would consider actually helpful to a buyer and gives a good idea of what the type of service they will be receiving if they go with this person and adds to the thread.
1.8 Do not post content which is extremely low in quality, irrelevant, redundant, unnecessary, or meaningless. (e.g: “Looks nice, GLWS”, “Vouch, bought an {item}”)
1.8.1 Do not post content to which a reaction could have been substitute, or which was already made apparent.
1.8.2 Do not post content whose only purpose is to bump a thread.
1.8.3 Do not vouch on a product/service thread unless you have purchased that product/service. User vouches should be done via the reputation system.
Nothing in rule 1.8 says you cannot leave vouches in general. It states that low-quality vouches cannot be posted and that user vouches cannot be posted.

I get that this is a joke but I think it needs to be clear that the vouch doesn't necessarily need to be long, it just needs to be informative by giving insight into how the deal went.

Adding on to that to say if the user was kind, helpful, professional, active, quick, would be a simple way to actually provide something useful to people. The seller can easily say what they are capable of doing, but what is helpful to buyers is other buyers saying if the experience of buying something from the seller was any good.

Everyone is affected by the rule, nobody is immune to rule 1.8. However, there are many posts and we don't look at every thread and post on the forum, we deal with the posts that get reported to us. If you see a low-quality post, then report it and it will be handled. I don't think banning a word does any good, you can say vouch, just not by itself, there needs to be something informative to go along with saying vouch.

"Vouch, bought an automated ticketing system from them!"

This on itself already says a deal went right. You know that, everyone knows that. But you still want it written out. The deal was positive and positive enough to vouch for them. But oh well, means nothing right?