Discussion: Plugin Prices

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JC_Plays_MC

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If you would like to look at the official java conventions: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf
at section 5 it says:
"Note: The frequency of comments sometimes reflects poor quality of code. When you feel compelled to add a comment, consider rewriting the code to make it clearer."

What part don't you understand. If you really need something to explain the process when re-looking at it then add a comment. That's why I stated "as many as you want" because if you really can't understand what a single line of code is doing then you need a comment.
 

TheRealDan

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If you would like to look at the official java conventions: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf
at section 5 it says:
"Note: The frequency of comments sometimes reflects poor quality of code. When you feel compelled to add a comment, consider rewriting the code to make it clearer."
Sometimes, doesn't mean all the time.
The conventions imply if you are using comments often you should consider rewriting to make it more readable, it doesn't mean that you should write code to avoid using comments.

If you want to write a comment, write a comment.
 

Shadow

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Sometimes, doesn't mean all the time.
The conventions imply if you are using comments often you should consider rewriting to make it more readable, it doesn't mean that you should write code to avoid using comments.

If you want to write a comment, write a comment.
There is no reason to have a comment when the code can easily explain it itself.
 

Justis

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If you would like to look at the official java conventions: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf
at section 5 it says:
"Note: The frequency of comments sometimes reflects poor quality of code. When you feel compelled to add a comment, consider rewriting the code to make it clearer."
See, if I were to write what you'd suggest, I'd need to add a comment explaining why I felt compelled to create three separate local variables for that one line, because I personally would have never done that, nor would I have trouble looking back on it 6 months later and figuring out what it's doing. I had no trouble understanding what was happening when you wrote it. You.
In order to follow proper oracle conventions and reduce comments, I'd need to make my code clearer, by removing those useless variables and just writing the line.

Why? Because of exactly what I said earlier in this conversation.

People understand things differently, and have different styles of writing code.
What's more convenient to read for one person is not for another.

But if I were trying to t-rekt you, I'd say:
Maybe the problem is not that everyone else is writing in a way that is hard to understand, but you simply don't understand things well, and should give up java.
It's obvious few to none agree with your example, so good luck in collaborations. Kappa

But I'm not going to rek you, because I like you. :p
 

Shadow

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See, if I were to write what you'd suggest, I'd need to add a comment explaining why I felt compelled to create three separate local variables for that one line, because I personally would have never done that, nor would I have trouble looking back on it 6 months later and figuring out what it's doing. I had no trouble understanding what was happening when you wrote it. You.
In order to follow proper oracle conventions and reduce comments, I'd need to make my code clearer, by removing those useless variables and just writing the line.

Why? Because of exactly what I said earlier in this conversation.

People understand things differently, and have different styles of writing code.
What's more convenient to read for one person is not for another.

But if I were trying to :rekt: you, I'd say:
Maybe the problem is not that everyone else is writing in a way that is hard to understand, but you simply don't understand things well, and should give up java.
It's obvious few to none agree with your example, so good luck in collaborations. Kappa

But I'm not going to rek you, because I like you. :p
The last thing I am going to post on this thread. There are coding conventions for a reason. There is a reason to follow them. You should follow them.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf
 

JC_Plays_MC

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The last thing I am going to post on this thread. There are coding conventions for a reason. There is a reason to follow them. You should follow them.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf

Just figured I'd say if you actually read the examples listed at the bottom of the documentation you have provided they have a comment for every variable they initialize so therefor adding a comment for the variable would follow the "coding conventions" which you continue to tell us to follow.
 

Shadow

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Just figured I'd say if you actually read the examples listed at the bottom of the documentation you have provided they have a comment for every variable they initialize so therefor adding a comment for the variable would follow the "coding conventions" which you continue to tell us to follow.
Ok, i said I was done with this thread but this comment is just too stupid. Can you not tell that they are just using comments in the example code so they can explain stuff to the reader.
You would never do this in your actual code:
Code:
public class Blah extends SomeClass {
/* A class implementation comment can go here. */
/** classVar1 documentation comment */
public static int classVar1;
/*** classVar2 documentation comment that happens to be
* more than one line long
*/
private static Object classVar2;
/** instanceVar1 documentation comment */
public Object instanceVar1;
/** instanceVar2 documentation comment */
protected int instanceVar2;
/** instanceVar3 documentation comment */
private Object[] instanceVar3;
 

JC_Plays_MC

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Ok, i said I was done with this thread but this comment is just too stupid. Can you not tell that they are just using comments in the example code so they can explain stuff to the reader.
You would never do this in your actual code:
Code:
public class Blah extends SomeClass {
/* A class implementation comment can go here. */
/** classVar1 documentation comment */
public static int classVar1;
/*** classVar2 documentation comment that happens to be
* more than one line long
*/
private static Object classVar2;
/** instanceVar1 documentation comment */
public Object instanceVar1;
/** instanceVar2 documentation comment */
protected int instanceVar2;
/** instanceVar3 documentation comment */
private Object[] instanceVar3;

I'm just going by the conventions you keep telling us to read. Everything should be documented if it needs to be however you're trying to say that too many comments is a bad practice. If you seriously can't understand a line of code that has a method within a method then add a comment, no point in declaring multiple variables which you would only use once. I don't think you understand the general point everyone is trying to get across to you.
 

Skionz

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The prices that plugins are being contracted and marketed for, specifically on MCM, are very inconsistent. You have some developers selling large plugins for $30 others for $100. I was wondering what's causing the disparity.

I think several factors should play into the cost of a plugin. The less skill the programmer has the less it should cost. The less time it takes to make, the less it should cost. This means that less skill and more time should even out to around the same as more skill and less time.

Since the function skill*time should even out between developers, that can't be what's causing the inconsistencies. I think the problem lies with a large group of inexperienced devs (not claiming to be experienced my self) under-valuing their work to get an edge over the more established devs. I've not seen a large problem with devs over-valuing their work, but I would be interested in receiving examples.

A second problem I see with the pricing in the community is for retail plugins. All of them are extremely over valued. Most are more than the average indie game on steam and nearly all are more than the average app on the app store. The demand is obviously high enough to constitute these prices, which makes me question the maturity and education of many server owners who choose to buy retail plugins.
Basically half decent developers that aren't idiots who watch TheBCBroz all day and kind of have an idea of what they're doing charge more. I used to base my prices on an estimated amount of time it would take to finish at $10 per hour. $10 / hour is extremely cheap and I make more doing skill less labor at work then I would here, but somehow here it is expensive.

The reason for that is because the "developer market" here is flooded with 13 years who think they are "coding masters" who memorize snippets of horribly written code while not even understanding what it does. Server owners don't know any better and choose the cheapest (and shittiest) developers of the lot. What they get in return is filthy code that real developers wouldn't touch.

I used to refuse to update people's plugins and fix bugs people have in plugins written by other people because every time I looked at the code it was disgusting. A rule of thumb if you are hiring a developer is pick the most expensive one as long as their prices are under the average developer's rate ($55 / hour)
 

UIDesign

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Developers on MCMarket sell their plugins cheaply, regardless of skill, you're paying for time.
 

Tylerzz

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I normally base the price on the amount of time it would take me, and the complexity of it.

One thing I really hate seeing(see it a lot), when a user is looking for a plugin, HCF Core in this example, something that would take a lot of time to fully make from the ground up. Then a random member with little to no work posted anywhere offers it done for a price like $20.
 
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