Gun Control - Yay or Nay?

[Ivain]

I'm saying, if you're the type of kid who seems like you'd go shoot up a school and are clearly fucked in the head, your parents better have a safe to keep their guns in or they'd better send you to therapy. At a certain point, though, you're right. We can't possibly ever prevent every single shooting in the world and we can't even prevent every violent attack. People are people. There will always be bad people in the world. Guns should not be outlawed because of the minority of fucked up murderers.

The point I'm making is not that they should be outlawed. I've already stated that I accept the necessity in a country where law enforcement is not always just 20 minutes away. My point has been that enforcement of the existing procedures, which you have demonstrated exist to a further degree than I knew, needs to be stronger, to decrease the number of incidents.
That Wut was able to give me a list of shootings that have happened that covers 6 pages just for this year shows there is not enough enforcement of existing laws demonstrates that there needs to be more enforcement. There's not a list of comparable size related to population in any west-european country (probably is in some east european one, but those don't have our tight enforcement).
Btw, on that point, I've taken a look at several cases, and nowhere is there more than the vague implication that they required days of planning (taking a gun into an establishment could take days, but it could also not.)

And finally, as I said, not every nutcase is known or even suspected. For the longest time, I was the quiet kid in class, attracting no attention. However, when a bully pushed me too far once, I suddenly went all out berserker rage and tried to pulverize him. Luckily I did not have the skills or strength to do more than give a few bruises, nor the rationality left to realize I had a knife in my pocket which I could use to hurt them. However, nobody suspected those actions from me before I did them the first time.

I was 13 then, and could get some help to improve my anger managment.
However, if I'd not been provoked too far in the next decade, it could have gotten to the point where I seriously hurt someone in a blind rage.
TLDR if you want to skip the anecdote: Not every nutcase shows the symptoms before their first triggering.

 

[montyburly]

The point I'm making is not that they should be outlawed. I've already stated that I accept the necessity in a country where law enforcement is not always just 20 minutes away. My point has been that enforcement of the existing procedures, which you have demonstrated exist to a further degree than I knew, needs to be stronger, to decrease the number of incidents.
That Wut was able to give me a list of shootings that have happened that covers 6 pages just for this year shows there is not enough enforcement of existing laws demonstrates that there needs to be more enforcement. There's not a list of comparable size related to population in any west-european country (probably is in some east european one, but those don't have our tight enforcement).
Btw, on that point, I've taken a look at several cases, and nowhere is there more than the vague implication that they required days of planning (taking a gun into an establishment could take days, but it could also not.)

And finally, as I said, not every nutcase is known or even suspected. For the longest time, I was the quiet kid in class, attracting no attention. However, when a bully pushed me too far once, I suddenly went all out berserker rage and tried to pulverize him. Luckily I did not have the skills or strength to do more than give a few bruises, nor the rationality left to realize I had a knife in my pocket which I could use to hurt them. However, nobody suspected those actions from me before I did them the first time.

I was 13 then, and could get some help to improve my anger managment.
However, if I'd not been provoked too far in the next decade, it could have gotten to the point where I seriously hurt someone in a blind rage.
TLDR if you want to skip the anecdote: Not every nutcase shows the symptoms before their first triggering.

I don't agree that increasing gun control would solve anything. The Orlando shooter was being investigated by the FBI and still managed to kill 50 people. Nothing will stop these criminals. The least we can do is help law-abiding citizens defend themselves against them.

You saying that you might've killed someone if you had access to a gun is extremely troubling. That's honestly not normal at all lol I don't know why you're trying to downplay that. That's not a common occurrence in most kids' lives.

 

[Ivain]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/man-shot-in-gage-park-7/
Were all of the people that shot those listed on this website under FBI investigation?
don't think so.
And I did not say I might have killed someone if I had access to a gun. I understand you might think it was implied, but I would say that the part about me having a knife in my pocket and never thinking to use it would've made it clear.
If that part of me had been left unchecked, it would have still existed when I was older and strong enough to do more than give bruises with my fists.
At no point have I ever considered using a weapon, because my moments of rage, fortunately, removed all rationality, including the inclination to use any sort of usable weapon. Most weapon-y thing I've ever done was try to hit someone with a binder, which was so ineffectual that in retrospect it was nearly funny.

And considering that my youth was anything but usual, I don't think it's that suprising I was somewhat aggressive. If you get picked on in almost any environment with agemates, you tend to react more strongly each time someone goes too far.

Anyway, I've gotten over that part. Now the only situation in which I'd seriously consider getting violent is if me or someone I care about is under serious threat, a reaction I believe is a bit more normal.
Though if someone pisses me off majorly I do sometimes need to vent myself on a tree or a sandbag. Luckily this hasn't happened in a year now, which is quite surprising considering the amount of idiots that I encounter on websites like twitter (and sometimes this website too, though here most actual idiots are just young kids that are a tad too arrogant. The rest have been rational, however much I might disagree with their views).

 

[montyburly]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/man-shot-in-gage-park-7/
Were all of the people that shot those listed on this website under FBI investigation?
don't think so.

lol the point is that even someone who passes every single gun control measure that can possibly be taken can still murder 50 people. If someone who is under actual FBI investigation can commit the biggest mass shooting in America, gun control measures just don't work.

 

[Ivain]

Finally, before I start recounting my life story, I believe it's time to close off the debate. I've had my fun, learned a few things and stretched my mental muscles. Neither of us is going to convince the other of anything at this point, but I have learned quite a bit.
Destroy my remaining arguments as you wish, I won't be responding to this discussion anymore.[DOUBLEPOST=1466620258][/DOUBLEPOST]

lol the point is that even someone who passes every single gun control measure that can possibly be taken can still murder 50 people. If someone who is under actual FBI investigation can commit the biggest mass shooting in America, gun control measures just don't work.

They won't work on people like that, but they may on more average people.
Anyway, shutting up now, Im going on too long.

 

[nara~kavi]

I don't really understand what people on the other side of this argument want. There's already tons of gun control laws in place. States have the power to put their own additional laws in place as well, such as California which has banned "assault weapons". The Orlando shooter jumped through all the hoops that currently exist, had mental evaluations, had a job that required him to have weapons, etc. There's only so much that they can do to restrict the sale of guns, and most of that stuff is stuff that already is required. I do agree that certain loopholes should be closed up, such as purchasing guns online or at gunshows, but beyond that I don't really get what it is that people want to happen.

Guns will always be a part of American society. It's enshrined in our constitution. It's a core part of our culture. If someone else had a gun in Orlando that night, maybe 50 people would still be alive today.